David Shriner-Cahn Helps People Make Stable, Predictable, and Recurring Revenue | PoP 355

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David Shriner-Cahn Helps People Make Stable, Predictable, and Recurring Revenue

Have you ever wondered how you could grow your business by adding multiple revenue streams? Maybe you have a big idea you want to launch but you’re just not sure how to? How would having stable, predictable and recurring revenue help you grow your business and better your life?

In this podcast episode Joe Sanok speaks with David-Shriner Cahn about how he helps people make stable, predictable and recurring revenue.

Podcast Sponsor

Everyone loves payday. But loving a payroll provider? That’s a little weird. Still, small businesses across the country love running payroll with Gusto. Gusto automatically files and pays your taxes, it’s super easy to use, and you can add benefits and HR support to help take care of your team and keep your business safe. Plus, listeners get three months free when they run their first payroll. So if you want better payroll in 2019, now’s the time to start. To get 3 months free once you run your first payroll just go to gusto.com/joe

Meet David Shriner-Cahn

David Shriner-Cahn is recognized as an authority on entrepreneurship, leadership development and is the host of the podcast Smashing The Plateau. David is the co-founder of the BestNetwork providing expert, individual and team mentorship, peer support and curated educational content to help solopreneurs that are experts in getting recurring revenue that they deserve.

Find out more about David on Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn.

David Shriner-Cahn’s Story

BestNetwork is designed to help solopreneurs, people who sell their knowledge and creativity, address one of the biggest pain points: ‘It’s great that I am in charge of running my own business, yet how do I get paid consistently and in a way that has some stability?” 

In This Podcast


In this podcast episode Joe Sanok speaks with David-Shriner Cahn about how he helps people make stable, predictable and recurring revenue and why it’s important that your business has multiple revenue streams.

Life/Work Design

The things that we take for granted about what we’re capable of doing, is really where the hidden magic is.

  • You need to have the right mindset for success.
  • Be clear what it is about you that makes you unique and special and where you do your best work.
  • Who are the kinds of clients that you want to serve, that you can have the biggest impact on.

Would Someone Pay For This?

If someone is coming in for parenting advice and you let them know that you have an e-course at a special price and that it will speed up their progress. This is a product people will want to pay for because they know that they won’t have to pay for as much counseling but they will also get faster results.

Before Launching Your Big Idea Find Your Audience

You’re not selling anything when you’re doing the market research. You want to understand whether what you’re perceiving as a problem, is as big a problem as your prospective clients think it is.

Entrepreneurs assume a lot about what’s going on in the market place. If you are going to assume something without doing the market research, you are probably going to guess wrong and spend time and money creating something that nobody wants to buy.

Create An Offer

What you need to look at when you’re doing the market research is not just where is there a problem that needs to be solved, but where is there a problem that needs to be solved every month.

Based on what you’ve learned from the market research and what seems to be the price point that your target market feels comfortable with investing in this solution – how many clients do you need and can you deliver the solution to that number with the amount of time you have.

Having Multiple Revenue Streams

Your business will be healthier if you have multiple revenue streams.

If you are getting all your money by doing 1-on-1 sessions and you have health issues and you can no longer do these sessions, you won’t have any money coming in.

You can do what you love and get paid what you’re worth!

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Meet Joe Sanok

private practice consultant Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.

Thanks For Listening!

Feel free to leave a comment below or share this podcast on social media by clicking on one of the social media links below! Alternatively, leave a review on iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

Joe Sanok: Everyone loves payday, but loving a payroll provider? That’s a little weird. Still, private practices across the country love running payroll with Gusto. Gusto automatically files and pays your taxes. It’s super easy to use and you can add benefits and HR support to help you take care of your team and make your private practice safe. It’s loyal, it’s modern. You might fall in love yourself. Listeners get three months free when they run their first payroll. Try a demo and test it out over gusto.com/Joe, that’s gusto.com/Joe. This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 355. Well, welcome, welcome, welcome. Still got some salad in my mouth. I’ve this delicious salad and eating today that has some greens, artichoke hearts, cheese. Let’s see what else do I got on there. Some nutritional yeast and homemade ranch dressing. It’s been awesome to be eating it throughout the day. So, I hope your day’s going well. I don’t know why I feel compelled to tell you about my lunch, but hey, that’s what I did. So, today on the podcast we have David Shriner Kahn and I’m super excited to have him back on the show. He’s someone that I connected with a number of years ago and we’re going to be talking about predictable, recurring revenue and a number of other things that he’s been working on that I know is going to help you. But even more than just helping in your practice, I hope it helps you think bigger because I remember when I started to just realize that I didn’t have to follow the normal path of counselors where I worked at a non-profit then, you know, maybe I worked at CMH and then get a job at a community college and then just had, you know, a private practice on the side when I realized that the skills that I have, the world needs more of. And the same with you. The skills that you have, maybe you are awesome at helping with people that have dealt with trauma or maybe you’ve really helped inspire kids that are in foster care, or couples. Maybe you do amazing work with couples. There’s so many ways that we can grow and change the world in a genuine way, in a way that mirrors our skills, that isn’t just to make money, but it offers something new by linking together all sorts of different ways that people have proven that things work. So, I’m really excited to be talking about this. And actually, we just opened up applications for the next mastermind that’s for people specifically that are launching big ideas. And so, podcasts, e-courses, keynotes … and so, if you want to read more about that, you can go over to the practiceofthepractice.com/ideas. And I have a video there about the mastermind group and, specifically for people that they want to launch big ideas. You want to go out into the world. So, check that out if that’s something that you might want to do or if you might want to be launching something beyond your practice this year. So, David is going to walk us through all sorts of things that are going to help us in this area. So, without any further ado, I give you David Shriner Kahn. Today on the Practice of the Practice podcast, we have David Shriner Kahn. He is recognized as an authority on entrepreneurship, leadership development, and is host of the podcast Smashing the Plateau. David is part of the best network providing expert individual and team mentorship, peer support, incurated educational content to help solopreneurs that are experts in getting recurring revenue that they deserve. David, welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast. David Shriner: Thanks so much Joe. It’s great to be back on. Joe: Yeah, I didn’t put in there that you are a two-time guest now. So, welcome back. David: Yeah, thank you. Great to be back. Joe: Yeah. Well, this Best Network thing that you’ve been working on over the last year, I think is when it launched, and then you’ve probably been working on it and thinking about it for a while. Before that, let’s just start there. How did it start and what are you doing? I know that there’s some spy background there that’s kind of interesting. So, let’s talk about that. David: Sure. So, Best Network is designed to help solopreneurs, people who sell their knowledge and creativity address one of the biggest pain points that they have, which is, it is great that I am doing what I love to do because I’m in charge of running my own business. Yet, how do I get paid consistently and in a way that has some stability because I don’t have a pay check, right? They get the whole, I guess like the promise of a pay check is, “We’re going to give you consistent money every single month in exchange for you working for the company.” And working for the company often means you, the working hours are set by the company, where you work is set by the company, what you do get set by the company. And very often how you do it get set by the company. So, they’re particularly for people that want to take charge of their life. Having a job often is at odds with that objective. So, if you are running your own business and you are a solopreneur with some expertise, it’s great to be in charge and to be able to do what you want and to try to serve the kinds of people you want to serve and have the kind of impact you want to have. Challenges; how do you get the same kind of steady income that you would get with a pay check? And the reality is it can be done. And there are some steps that you need to go through. There’s a process that we teach entrepreneurs that really help a great deal to achieve that. What sometimes seems as an elusive objective of consistent, stable monthly recurring revenue. And you mentioned something about a spy. So, the process that we use is based on a proven process that was developed by John Crystal after he finished his service in World War II. He was a spy. And when he came back from the service, he discovered that when he put his resume together, nobody was interested in hiring a spy. So, after knocking at a lot of doors and getting a lot of cold shoulders and rejections, he ended up using his spy skills to reverse engineer the job-hunting process and came up with a methodology where people would essentially tell him what they needed and how much it was worth to them and then ask him to solve their problems and pay him for it. So, it worked out quite well. He ended up writing a book about it and also teaching other people how to use this process. I first learned about this over 30 years ago when I went through the program that he had developed and we have used that sort of core element, which is called life work design in the best network for solopreneurs to help them build recurring revenue in their business. Joe: So, take us a little more into that life work design that sounds like some interesting bullet points of kind of finding the problem, finding the worth from that person’s point of view, and then pitching them services. Like, take us through that, what that might look like for a consultant or for a therapist that maybe is working with a business or to give us an example of that. David: Yeah, sure. So, the first thing that you need to do is you need to have the right mindset for success. You need to be clear on, there’s sort of two sides to this equation. There’s the side that’s you, right? So, you’re in a private practice. Like, I know you and I have talked a lot about this. Joe: Yeah. David: You’re in a private practice and you’ve got to be clear on what it is about you that is unique, special, and where you do your best work. What is it that you enjoy doing the most and that you’re most competent at doing? The second side of the equation is whom do you want to serve? Who is it in not just the world, because the world is too big. It’s really what is your world? Who are the kinds of clients that you most want to serve, you can have the biggest impact on? You have the biggest connection with those kinds of people. And how do you understand based on your own super skills, what is it in your world, the people that you want to serve that they need most where they have the biggest problem and you have the solution because of your super skills, you have done this over and over again and you can solve it. So, it’s acquiring the right mindset for success. Second is, we do this in a group because it is really powerful to be connected with likeminded people who are going through the same thing. There’s a lot of self-reflection as part of this process and it’s, the things that we take for granted about what we’re capable of doing is really where the hidden magic is. And it’s way easier for other people to recognize those hidden talents than for us to recognize those talents ourselves. So, it’s really important to do this in a group with a trained facilitator who is able to help the group, the individuals in the group and help the group as a whole, elevate themselves and understand where those hidden talents are. Joe: Yeah, I just heard about an exercise, I think it was at an EOFire. John Lee Dumas was interviewing somebody and it was, part of it I think kind of drills into that idea of what makes you unique and special. Sometimes it is hard for us to really think through that, but the exercise was to think back on three times kind of outside of your business that you really received accolades. So, for example, you gave a best man speech and people were like, “Holy cow, that was amazing.” Or, you know, I think about, we had to make a float for the National Cherry Festival for the first-grade families and people were like, “You’re really good at kind of organizing this team.” And so, looking for three or so examples of times that you just did something that people really noticed. And then from there looking at what are the strings that kind of connect those different things. And then you can kind of pull that back to your business and say, so I have these natural talents that maybe I didn’t realize were as pronounced or unique as I thought. And is there an opportunity there to incorporate that into my consulting or incorporate that into my counseling in a way that it provides new value to the community? David: Exactly. And another thing that’s powerful about doing this in a group and in a community is, the other people in the room, we’ll give you inspiration and also, they’re going to give you strength when you’re starting to feel tired. Joe: Yeah. How would this apply? I think one thing I’m thinking about is, so if someone isn’t doing consulting or going after a big idea, but they’ve got a traditional counseling private practice, how could they apply some of these principles to that? David: So, it depends on where the person is in the growth of their practice. In many cases people in individual private practices may be charging too little or maybe what they’re seeing is that they could, based on whom they serve, perhaps there are different price points for different kinds of work that they do and they may need to recognize that they’re missing an opportunity by not charging more to those who can pay more and to those who get value that is consistent with what they can and should pay. So, pricing could be an issue. It could be that there are certain repetitive resources that they provide to their clients that could be resources that they could provide outside of just one on one counseling session. Think about the way you’ve done it and your business. You’ve built this whole community of people that are learning how to run practices in a better way. And you could either give them the resources one at a time or if you find that you’re delivering the same kinds of resources and some of those resources don’t need to be delivered live, you can put them up behind the paywall. And for a modest fee, give people access to it. Joe: Yeah. And I think that that’s one thing that people think, well would someone pay for that? Well, if you figure, say someone’s coming in for parenting advice and you tell him, “I have this e-course that for the general public it’s $200, but for my clients it’s $97 it’s really going to speed up our progress and most people end up achieving things faster, really getting their family kind of back under control again within a couple of weeks of going through this course.” People are going to pay for that because they know they’re not going to have to pay for as much counseling, but they’re also going to get faster results, which you know, no one wants to go through that pain of whatever they’re dealing with for as long. They want to get through it as quick as possible. David: Correct. So, what you’re speaking to is part of this process, which is once you are clear on who your ideal target market is and you’ve done some market research because the market research is a really intrinsic and important part of this process — Joe: Now, when you say market research, some people wouldn’t even know the bullet points of what they should do for that. What would you say would kind of encompass market research? David: Market research is, you’re gathering specific, relevant information to help you make an informed decision. So, if you notice as an example, why don’t you repeat what you just said about this one case where somebody is creating an e-course? [crosstalk]. What’s the problem they’re solving? Joe: So, I would say the problem they’re solving is not knowing what to do when your kid’s freaking out or you know how to correct behavior, maybe? David: Okay. So, not knowing what to do when your kid is freaking out? So, if you think that there may be a gap in the marketplace for parents whose kids are freaking out, perhaps what you want to learn is what are the situations where your kid has freaked out? What have you done to solve the problem? How have you reacted? What have you done to solve the problem? What’s worked well, what hasn’t worked well? And if you ask those questions to several dozen parents, you’re going to learn a lot of information about what works and what doesn’t work. And the most important piece of the market research is when you, when you’re doing the market research, you’re not selling anything. You’re just asking for information. And the informed decision that you want to make is you want to decide whether or not you want to do something about the problem that you are perceiving. You want to understand whether what you’re perceiving as a problem is as big a problem as your perspective clients think it is. And if you’re, because part of the problem is that as entrepreneurs, we assume a lot about what’s going on in our marketplace. So, if I’m in private practice and I assume that my clients have a big problem with regard to their children’s behavior and I create something to solve that, if I assume it without doing this market research, I’m probably going to guess wrong. And I’m probably going to spend time and money creating something that nobody wants to buy. So, you’ve really got to do the market research first and the market research is to help inform your decision about, A, whether or not you want to do something about this problem and then B, how you want to do something about it. Joe: Well, I think David, you just tapped into something that a lot of people, I think do wrong. And that’s that they come up with the idea first and then try to find an audience for it. So, they say, “Oh, I’ve sketched out this nine-part, like marriage kind of session program and I can’t wait to sell it to people and it’s going to be amazing.” But they haven’t surveyed anyone. They haven’t talked to anyone about whether or not there’s any need for it. And then they feel like they’ve put all this time and energy because they have and often money into this big idea, but they’re trying to fit an audience into this idea versus, “Okay, let me build a little bit of an audience, you know, find out how they talk about their problems and then use what I learned there to then launch something.” Because maybe people don’t want a nine-part marriage thing. They may want like a one-day thing or they may want a 14-day retreat. So, if you talk to people, you at least have an idea of what the market will actually want versus you create something, spent all that time, and money on it and then it just flops. David: Correct. And, the bonuses as you’re conducting the market research, you’re developing connections with people who are your potential customers. And again, you’re not selling anything when you’re doing the market research. You can get back to them later once you have done your research, you reached some conclusions, and you’re ready to float some idea that may be an offer. Joe: Yeah. You know, one way I saw one person do this when they were looking at doing more consulting and connecting actually with churches is they went and they surveyed, I’d say like 20 or 30 local pastors and just said, “I’m just gathering information to do a community assessment. And then I’m going to put this all together in a 20-page report on the state of kind of churches and mental health and tell you what I discover.” They then after they sent that report out, got so many referrals from churches for their practice because they were now the expert on, “Here’s all the things that are going wrong in families and churches and here’s some solutions. Here’s some options. Now I’m the go-to person for you.” So, that’s kind of a practical way that I’ve seen some of my consulting clients really kind of grow referrals. And you can apply that to anything. It wouldn’t have to be churches, it could be divorce attorneys, it could be just about anything. David: Right? But again, it goes back to, the place where it starts is you have to understand yourself first. What is it you’re really interested in? What is it you’re really good at? What is it you love doing? And then in the marketplace, pick a particular niche that, where you perceive that there’s a problem and that problem is connected to what you have identified about yourself so that there is going to be, if you discovered that there is a real need in the marketplace, then you connect it with what it is that you can be the expert at offering. Joe: Yeah. So, what do you do after you have done that market research and you kind of understand yourself, what are the next steps? David: The next steps are to create an offer and in particular, what do you need to look at when you’re doing the market research is not just why is there a problem that needs to be solved, but why is there a problem that needs to be solved every month? Joe: Hey, practitioners, I want to take a second to tell you about the Killin’It Camp retreat. If you would value connecting with a community of like-minded and like hearted practice owners who want to deepen their sense of purpose and meaning as business owners and to talk about and share the best practices and strategies for ultimate business and life success, then this event might be for you. If you’d value being around high performing practitioners without the big egos, clinicians that believe in living life to the fullest while also growing an amazing practice, you might enjoy Killin’It Camp. Once a year, we’re getting together in person, in small groups with the best guest experts and so much more in Estes Park Colorado. We’ve done these focus retreats multiple times. They’ve sold out every single time. If you’re excited about it, make sure to check it out at killin’itcamp.com where you can sign up for the next Killin’It Camp therapists’ retreat. One of the things you might be wondering is, is leaving my business actually going to make me a better business owner? For many of you, you work really hard, but at this retreat we’ll be helping you to know exactly where to spend your time and where to say no. To speed up, you have to slow down. You have to learn from experts and grow a community of likeminded supporters. We have to step back so we can go back into our practices to rock it out. This is the same concept as going to therapy, a weekend intensive, or a church retreat. You take a moment to reconnect with what really matters. You plan, you strategize, you work on your business so you can be better in your business. If that all sounds good, check it out at killin’itcamp.com. David: Okay, so, let’s go back to the example of someone in private practice who helps parents deal with the freak-outs that their kids have. If you have learned how to do a better job addressing your reaction to your kid freaking out, what is it that you’re going to need in the future as your kids continue to have freak-outs? Just because you’ve solved the aftermath of your kid freaking out today, that doesn’t mean that your kid isn’t going to freak out next month. Joe: Right, you do it differently when they’re two versus seven versus twelve? David: Correct. So, what is it that those parents are going to need when the kid is seven and when the kid is 12 and every month in between? And it may be that they’re not going to need something huge every single month. They may need something that’s a modest price point, but ongoing. And again, your market research will tell you what this is. It’s, you know, I can’t really guess what the answer might be because parents will tell you, I mean, I can tell you what it felt like when my kids were at that age. And yes, the freak-outs happen at all different ages and the behaviors were different at different ages. And my reaction was different when they were different ages and I was different at different age. So — Joe: You know what it makes me think of is, so in this example, there’s a group called the Front Row Dads and Jon Vroman, who’s a podcaster and a guy I met at TEDx, he launched this, I joined the group. And so, learning what to do when you freak out, when your kids freak out, or you freak out for that matter is part of it. But it’s about how do you just become a better-quality dad? And so, maybe the kid’s freaking out is to specialize, but as part of something broader. I want to be a better parent. And so, you know, maybe you talk about each month, how do you handle different freak-outs at different ages? But then you also talk about having a healthy diet and then you talk about screen time. I think there’s a lot that goes into parenting and so maybe people won’t pay for something around behavior every single month. So, then what’s the reoccurring theme that the people need on an ongoing basis? David: Right. Joe: So, that’s where people doing the market research, it would help them understand what are the core three or five things that parents say, “Man, if I had ongoing support in this area, I would pay 20 bucks a month to get resources around that.” David: Correct. And then you need to do the math about, okay, based on what you’ve learned from your market research and what seems to be the price point that your target market feels comfortable investing in this solution, how many clients do you need? And can you deliver the solution to that number with the amount of time you have, either available and/or you’re willing to invest for the return on investment of your time. Joe: Yeah, and I think that’s something that a lot of people don’t often look at. And the goal would be that you’re going to make more kind of per hour than you would in a typical counseling session. But there’s also kind of a scalability factor too. It’s not scalable to do one-on-one counseling. And so, you can only do so many counseling sessions, you know, in a week. Now you may be able to do kind of different methods or you know, bring in more money through a group, but that’s still, it’s not as scalable as something like what David’s talking about. So, if we run the math on it and maybe you’re making $40 less per hour, but if you get, you know, a hundred members, it ends up scaling, to me, you’re going to want that to be part of your math equation to say, “Okay, what’s the best-case scenario for this type of product? What’s the worst case and what’s probably reasonable? And you want that reasonable number to eventually be above what your counseling rates would typically be. David: Right. And you’re pointing at something else, Joe, which I think is important for people to here, which is, as somebody who runs a practice, you can have multiple revenue streams and in fact, your business will be healthier if you have multiple revenue streams. Because if there’s a problem with one stream, like let’s say you, you’re getting all your money by doing one-on-one sessions, if you have suddenly have a health issue and you can’t conduct one-on-one sessions, you’re going to be in big trouble. However, if you’ve created some kind of group program where you don’t have to be on live all the time to deliver it, if you have a health issue and you can’t perform live for some number of hours per week, then you’re still going to get revenue from the stuff that you’ve built and from the members that are paying you. Joe: Yeah, I think that’s such a good point because even if people say, “Well, I don’t want to launch an e-course or I don’t want to launch a member of community.” That’s fine, but you can still, even within a traditional practice, have some groups that you have. Maybe you have intensives that you know, once a month you do a three-day weekend where you charge, you know, $1,000 a couple and they come in and they get really fast results. I think also what happens is there’s some people that they want to come to weekly counseling. There’re other people that say, “I would love to just do an intensive and in three days get the results that would have taken me six months.” And so, I think there’s the money side of it where having multiple streams is important, but also there’s people that aren’t attracted to the model that you have right now. And so, maybe having different models can attract new audience members or new clients that wouldn’t typically even think of coming to counseling, but they’d come to an intensive. David: Right. And by the way, that’s a question you can also ask in your market research, which is “What, what model appeals to you? What would you pay for?” Joe: Yeah. You know, this is something that, when we were launching next level practice, the membership community, it was January of 2018 that we launched the first cohort in October, November, and December of the year before I jumped on probably 20 different phone calls with people that were just starting a practice. And I just asked them each three questions, then let them talk and took a bunch of notes. And those questions were just, “What’s been tough about starting a private practice? If you had a magic wand to just create anything that you could that would have supported you, what would that have been? And then third, if that existed, what would you have paid for?” And I didn’t really think of it in the how you framed it out, but I was doing that lifework design in that. And from that, we ended up creating something that was way bigger, way more of an ecosystem than we originally had planned on. Initially, it was just kind of going to be an e-course with a little bit of Facebook support. But by talking to people and hearing how they really wanted that offline support of accountability partners in small groups, it became much bigger. And it’s more dynamic now because we actually talked to people about what they needed. David: Correct. Joe: So, then how did you take this life work design and then apply to your own, Best Network, that program because oftentimes there’s these models that are out there. Oh, that’s a great model. But then we say, well, how do I apply that to something for my audience? Take me through kind of that transition from knowing what it is to then actually giving it some legs within your community. David: Well, actually we did the same thing that we’ve just talked about, which is market research. And survey after survey and conversation after conversation with solopreneurs, which is a big part of our audience, yielded the same information, which is, the biggest pain point is the lack of consistent stable revenue. And this was pretty much across the board, people that were making good money and people that were struggling financially. Because people that are making good money, often it’s because they have some high-priced items that bring in money in spurts, you know, so like paid speaking can be very financially rewarding based on, and we’ve had some clients where we’ve done some analysis of their different revenue streams and paid speaking seems to be one of the bigger returns on time investment. Particularly if you have a keynote that you’ve developed and you don’t have to modify it a whole lot for different audiences and if you can charge a hefty fee for a paid speaking gig, that’s great. But the money only comes in when you have those paid speaking gigs. So, if you have a year when you, you know, let’s say you’re charging $10,000 for speech and you have a year where you have 20 speeches, that’s great. But then if you have a year where you have five speeches, that’s a big difference. Joe: Yeah. David: And with paid speaking, somebody who invites you to speak before their audience typically is not going to want to have you come back year after year. They’re going to want to rotate and have different speakers so the audience gets exposed to different ideas. So, you see, you’re constantly hustling to try to get new business. And that can be challenging, whereas consulting can be more consistent. However, very often consultants charge based on the time they put in and like a daily rate. And that could be inconsistent. You could have years when you have a lot of billable hours and you could have some years when you don’t have so many billable hours or if you have project-based fees, you could have some great projects some years and then some years not so much. And also, you’re sort of at the whim of the politics of your client base and the whim of the economy because the economy often dictates, like when companies find themselves in some kind of financial stress or perceived financial stress, often one of the first lines to get cut is consulting because its way seems way easier than cutting employees. Joe: Yeah. So, then when you have that stable income, it then helps you get through those ups and downs. David: Exactly. So, yeah, the feedback we were getting from people over and over again is we want consistent, stable revenue, and just seem to us natural to combine this life work design process with a focus on building recurring revenue, which is the biggest pain point that we were hearing from people. Because you can do lifework design without looking for recurring revenue. You can just use it for employment. If you really are not interested in being an entrepreneur, you do want to get a paycheck, but you can use the same process to do your best work and get the kind of offers for jobs that you want and get paid what you’re worth. But you can do it as an entrepreneur and you can do it to focus specifically on recurring revenue as part of the outcome. Joe: So, give us maybe a couple of examples from either your community or that you’ve seen of people that are really kind of doing that recurring revenue like in regards to whether it’s membership communities, masterminds, like, what are some models out there that people have had success with so that our audience can really say, “Okay, I could see myself doing that. That sounds interesting. I’d want to explore that a little bit.” David: Right. So, in one case we have someone who has a professional history of both employment and consulting. And the consulting has been primarily as a solopreneur. And the revenue model that this person was using was primarily input based. It’s an hourly rate and two things have happened as a result of being part of Best Network. One is the analysis that this person has been making about what the time is worth has produced a much higher rate. And rather than selling services on a time-based rate, the services are now being sold on a monthly recurring rate. So, it’s like, “I can solve this problem on an ongoing basis. It’s going to cost you x number of dollars per month to do that and here’s what you’re going to get as a result of paying x number of dollars a month to me.” So, that’s been a game changer. It’s been a game changer both in terms of income level and also type of income. So, the revenue stream is very different. That’s one example. Another example is we have someone who is a consultant who also has been in the working world for several decades. First period of this person’s life was inside large corporations as an employee. The second period as a consultant and trainer to these companies. And what we’re currently developing now is an academy model where the problem that this person has been solving up till now as a consultant on either, mostly it’s a project fee and occasionally I would say a more extend … it’s not quite recurring revenue, but a more extended like, you know, a 12 month engagement as opposed to, “I’m going to come in and run these workshops that are going to be on this and this and this date.” The academy model is going to be, you’re going to get access to tools and resources and training that is going to help you improve your companies, (and this is really kind of a cultural competency) improve your company’s cultural competency over time by paying a monthly fee to be part of this academy. And as a result, you’re going to get better and employee engagement, lower turnover. You’re going to get better engagement with your global customers. You’re going to get more consistent and perhaps higher revenue from global customers because you’re going to be able to connect with them better. So, that’s the model that we’re currently working on with that person. Joe: Well, thanks so much for those. And for the listeners right now, there might be times that David says global customer and you’re thinking, “Man, I just have a small private practice in Des Moines or Chicago or Travers City.” But we need to think bigger because the skills that you have as a counselor, and we know that statistically only 8% of U.S. Citizens get a master’s degree. So, if you are in a room of a hundred people, you’re going to be in the top 8% educationally. But then what are the odds that those eight people have a masters in counseling, psychology, social work, MFTs? You’re probably in any room going to be one of the most educated people around mental health issues. And so, when David says these things, what we have inside of us is knowledge that the world needs and we need to be getting that knowledge out there. We also have the opportunity to grow beyond just attracting people into our private practice. So, I hope that these ideas are really kind of spurring you to think differently about what you could do. Even if you have a small five-clients-a-week practice, you can be launching these things and you know, kind of going out there and interviewing people and looking at big ideas that you can implement in the world. So, I just wanted to make sure that I kind of brought it home for you because this big thinking is really important and it may not be this year, it may be that that’s part of your kind of couple of years out thing, but keep it on your radar. You have skills inside of you that the world needs. So, David, let’s start to kind of land this a little bit. What are some kind of key points that you want to make sure they take away before we have our final question? David: Yeah. Well the key points are, you need to look inside yourself, really understand who it is you are meant to become and figure out what path is going to help you do that and whom you want to serve in the process. Joe: Awesome. And David, if every private practice owner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? David: You can do what you love and get paid what you’re worth. Joe: I love that. I feel like every day I come to work I’m like, “I can’t believe this is my world.” To hang out with people like you and you’ll create things that I think are going to help the private practice world, that’s such a great takeaway. All right. David, if people want to connect with you, if they want to read more about your work, if they want to join your community, what’s the best way for them to connect with you? David: So, the best way actually is to go to our podcast site, smashingtheplateau.com and just click on, Get in Touch. There’s a form there that you can just fill out your basic information and we will schedule a time for a 30-minute conversation, complimentary, no charge. I’d be happy to learn about you, hear what you’re up to, and if I can offer a few suggestions to help you help move the bar for you, I’m happy to do that. So, it’s smashingtheplateau.com and just click on the Get in Touch button on the menu. Joe: Perfect. Well David, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast. David: Thanks Joe. Joe: Well, thanks so much for listening to the Practice of the Practice podcast. I’m sure you have some clear takeaways from this that are inspiring you. Some of the things we covered, if you are interested in that big ideas mastermind group, it includes twice-a-month meetings with me in a small group, slow down schools included in that. Also, I do text and phone support between our meetings. You can apply over at practiceofthepractice.com/ideas. Also, if you want to come to Killin’It Camp and be around other likeminded people that have the heart and head of a private practice, that is just going to rack out but also really matches the values, then it might be for you. Head on over to killin’itcamp.com to check that out and thank you so much to our sponsor, Gusto. Gusto is the best payroll management. You got to check out gusto.com/Joe to try it out for free. Thanks so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain, I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. We like it a lot. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate, authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It was given with the understanding that neither of the host, the guests, or the publisher are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. Do you want a professional? You should find it.