Diverse Clinicians Series: The Journey to Becoming a Couples Therapist with Dr. Tiphanie Gibbs | POP 730

A photo of Dr. Tiphanie Gibbs is captured on the Practice of the Practice Podcast, a podcast for therapists and mental health professionals. Dr. Tiphanie Gibbs is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist in pursuit of renewing, rebuilding, and restoring relationships.

How has your personal experience inspired your counseling journey? Do societal structures fail couples? What recommendation can you get from a couples therapist on the best way to create a strong relationship?

In the first episode of the Diverse Clinicians Series, Joe Sanok speaks about the journey to becoming a couples therapist with Dr. Tiphanie Gibbs.

Podcast Sponsor: Therapy Notes

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Meet Dr. Tiphanie Gibbs

A photo of Dr. Tiphanie Gibbs is captured on the Practice of the Practice Podcast, a podcast for therapists and mental health professionals. Dr. Tiphanie Gibbs is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist in pursuit of renewing, rebuilding, and restoring relationships.

Dr. Tiphanie Gibbs is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist in pursuit of renewing, rebuilding, and restoring relationships. Her goal is to help couples like you who find themselves in difficult times in their relationships and experience disconnection to Be Anchored In Love. Check out her first e-book “Manage the Rough Spots and Keep Your Marriage Together” at www.beanchoredinlove.com. The tips and strategies are sure to take your relationship to the next level.
Visit Dr. Gibb’s website and business Facebook page. Connect with her on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook.

In This Podcast

  • Dr. Gibbs’ experience of working with couples
  • How society fails couples
  • “The best way to be a strong couple is to be a strong person”
  • Consider an E-book for your business

Dr. Gibbs’ experience of working with couples

The most common foundations and similarities between couples and their issues that Dr. Gibbs discovered were needing to:

  • Learn how to communicate
  • Learn how to resolve conflict with each other
  • Learn how to share vulnerabilities and feelings with your partner

Being able to learn all of those little aspects that we kind of forget about, or we don’t realize, or nobody teaches us [because] when we’re dating it’s all unicorns and rainbows. (Dr. Gibbs)

How society fails couples

A lot of what a person learns about communication comes from the examples that their parents set for them, as well as how they communicate with siblings, friends, or people within the community.

I think those are basic things that you have to learn within the home. I think it all starts within the home. (Dr. Gibbs)

Conflict resolution in schools and most family homes are not equipped to teach people effective methods of communication, because most conflict resolution is based around isolation and punishment, instead of open communication and compassion.

“The best way to be a strong couple is to be a strong person”

It takes personal courage and vulnerability to make a great relationship work.

You need to be willing to sit with yourself and develop your interpersonal skills if you wish to make your relationship flourish, with your partner, your kids, and your loved ones.

It’s so interesting that you start with a couple and the best way to be a strong couple is to be a strong person and is to be a strong adult to have learned these life skills. (Joe Sanok)

To be honest with yourself takes strength, and it is vital to do should you wish to create loving and meaningful relationships in your life.

Consider an E-book for your business

I think an e-book is a simple way to reach people. It is really quick because it’s not a full 200-page book, and it’s real easy to do. (Dr. Gibbs)

Writing and publishing an e-book is a great way to get your name out there to your audience and fellow clinicians.

You can write about your specialty, or provide activities and homework for your clients, and refer to it in session if you find that your clients have similar questions.

It can also connect you to other clinicians because it places you within the academic mental health community.

Books mentioned in this episode:

Dr Gibbs e-book: “Practical Tips and Strategies for Keeping Your Marriage Together”

Useful Links mentioned in this episode:

Check out these additional resources:

Meet Joe Sanok

A photo of Joe Sanok is displayed. Joe, private practice consultant, offers helpful advice for group practice owners to grow their private practice. His therapist podcast, Practice of the Practice, offers this advice.

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.

Thanks For Listening!

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Podcast Transcription

[JOE SANOK] This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 730. I’m Joe Sanok, your host, and welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast. Throughout June, we are doing a series of giving voices to diverse clinicians that oftentimes don’t have as prominent of voices. To me, this is so important because a number of years ago when I was doing the Black Leaders Matter Series one thing that really stood out to me was how people that end up getting interviewed on podcasts it doesn’t just often happen. It’s that there’s all sorts of different elements of privilege, like doing consulting with someone and having that be affordable and then getting to know people in the community and then having other people vouch for them. For me, it was really important to just say, hey, I want to hear people that are from different communities, different thoughts, all sorts of ways of thinking differently to make sure that this community and this podcast really represents all of mental health, all people and all perspectives as much as possible, through the position that I have as a podcaster. So we’re doing this series of a lot of different folks, and I’m really excited about what we’re doing here today. [JOE] Tiffany Gibbs is going to be joining us. Dr. Tiffany Gibbs is a licensed clinical marriage and family therapist in pursuit of renewing, rebuilding and restoring relationships. Her goal is to help couples like you, who find themselves in difficult times in their relationships and experience disconnection to be anchored in love. We’ll talk a little bit about her eBook, Manage the Rough Spots and Keep Your Marriage Together. Dr. Tiffany, welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast. I’m so glad that you’re here with us today. [DR. TIPHANIE GIBBS] Good morning, Joe. Thank you. I’m glad to be here. [JOE] Well, why don’t we just start with your story of getting into couple’s work. How did you end up going into this field? I’d love to dig into how you decided to write an eBook and working with couples and then we’ll talk about maybe even some transitions in your life. How’d you get into wanting to work with couples? [DR. TIPHANIE] I was in the military, so I’m retired Navy vet and I worked with families and couples and sailors and all of their family stuff and things that were going on. I once was a couple myself in the military. Unfortunately, I divorced in 2009 and that got me started on the journey of let me pursue my master’s in this area, in the area of marriage and family therapy. Just going through that and not being able to have someone there to talk to, not knowing how to go to therapy, not knowing who to contact to get to therapy, not having the resources that I needed during that time or during my marriage. s I wouldn’t get divorced. [JOE] How long were you in the Navy? [DR. TIPHANIE] I was in the Navy 23 years. [JOE] Wow. So you served a long time. How long were you married? [DR. TIPHANIE] I was married for 10 and a half. [JOE] Wow. I mean, I’ve talked rather publicly about the uncoupling that I went through over the last year and a half. You mentioned that that really helped you think through relationships, couples. During that time, what was helpful during your uncoupling and in those years that followed, just to have that be maybe more of a growth mindset than a victim mindset as you moved into a new phase of life? [DR. TIPHANIE] I wanted to help other people not be in the space that I was in. I wanted to be able to help others prevent going through divorce. Some people, there’s incompatibility and things like that or some things that occur but I think what happened in my marriage propelled me to say, let me help somebody else, because they don’t have to go through this. They don’t have to. Why go through divorce if you don’t have to? So just being in that space I wanted to help other people. [JOE] Yes, that was a big motivator for you. During that time of learning what were some things that really stood out to you as you started to learn more about helping other people when they’re in their marriages? [DR. TIPHANIE] The basic stuff, learning how to communicate, learning how to resolve conflict with each other, learning how to share your feelings and vulnerabilities with your partner and really becoming one with your partner. That’s what marriage is supposed to be about, two people join together and they become one and just being able to learn all of those different little aspects that we forget about, or we don’t realize, or nobody teaches us when we’re dating and it’s all unicorns and rainbows. [JOE] For you what would you say are reasons that we don’t learn to communicate and to fight well, and all those things that you just listed? What do you see in society that maybe doesn’t teach people those skills? [DR. TIPHANIE] Well, a lot of it comes from home and how our parents communicate with us, how we communicate with our siblings, how we communicate with our friends and community members and things like that. Also the schools, how we communicate there, how we learn, how to do that, how we learn, how to resolve conflict. Those are, I think, basic things that you have to learn within the home. I think it just starts within the home. [JOE] So even future marriage training, basically you’re saying comes from your parenting and the family dynamic? [DR. TIPHANIE] Yes, the family dynamic definitely, definitely the family dynamic. [JOE] So, and this is just a question for myself more than anything, I’m raising two girls. I want to make sure that they are good at relationships, good at handling conflict. What would you say in thinking about for them to be good partners in the future, whether or not they decide to get married, what should I be doing now as a dad of two daughters that can position them to be the best versions of themselves entering into partnerships in the future? [DR. TIPHANIE] I think being authentically themselves, helping them to nurture who they are so that when they do get into relationships they have an awareness of that, they have an awareness of who they are as they enter into relationships and know knowing themselves truthfully, being authentic to themselves. If you’re able to do that, then you’re able to share who you are with another person and you’re able to have empathy for another person. You’re able to see the human side of another person and not expect your partner to be this robot or this person that just meets every single expectation that you have. [JOE] Yes. [DR. TIPHANIE] So being able to really truly know yourself. If you can know yourself, then you can know and love somebody else. [JOE] Are there questions or activities that come to mind that I could do with my daughters that for you really represent helping them learn to know themselves more or postures towards life I could take that to you you’re like, this would be awesome if dads raising daughters were doing these types of activities or starting these conversations to help them know themselves? [DR. TIPHANIE] Let them explore their dreams, let them explore nature, let them explore whatever ideas they have about life and about themselves. Teach them how to cook. Have play dates with them. And not just cooking, but other things, whatever they’re interested in. Really allow them to go for it. If it’s dance, if it’s sports, if it’s podcasting, whatever it is so that they can be sort of a well-rounded person. Teach them the basics of communication. Teach them their finances. Teach them how to deal with money and budgeting and things like that. Teach them how to work hard, but also play hard. Have ambition. These are some things as well that are in my book, in the eBook that that I talk to people about. It’s just really, really basic, when you’re growing apart, when you feel like you’re growing apart, how do you reconnect? Share your vulnerabilities. [JOE] It’s so interesting that you start with a couple, like the best way to be a strong couple is to be a strong person, to be a strong adult, to have learned these life skills. It’s interesting reflecting back on my previous marriage and saying one of us was very strong in themselves and knew themselves well and had strong adulting skills and that wasn’t always the case. So it’s interesting to think about these choices we make as parents having such an effect on the way that people partner in the future. I love that you start there. Now let’s fast forward to when you’re working with couples. So say you have a couple, and there’s, whether it’s a mismatch in their adult skills, their ability to communicate, their ability to fight where do you start with most couples in regards to assessing where they’re at and then working with them to become a better version as a couple? [DR. TIPHANIE] I start with them where they are. That’s where you have to go, starting with what is the place that gets them stuck in terms of them feeling that they’re unable to communicate or that they’re unable to resolve conflict with each other or that they feel like they’re not on the same page? What is that stuck place? So you go into to that, and then you begin to ask questions based on how they respond to you [THERAPY NOTES] Is managing your practice stressing you out? Try Therapy Notes. It makes notes, billing, scheduling, and tele-health a whole lot easier. Check it out and you will quickly see why it’s the highest rated EHR on Trustpilot with over a thousand verified customer views and an average customer rating of 4.9 out of five stars. You’ll notice the difference from the first day you sign up for a trial. They offer live phone support seven days a week so when you have questions, you can quickly reach out to someone who can help. You are never wasting your time looking for answers. If you’re coming from another EHR, they make the transition really easy. Therapy Notes will import your clients’ demographic data free of charge during your trial so you can get going right away. Use the promo code [JOE], J-O-E to get three months to try out Therapy Notes, totally free, no strings attached. Remember telehealth is included with every subscription free. Make 2022, the best year yet with Therapy Notes. Again, use promo code [JOE] to get three months totally free. [JOE SANOK] For some of the newer clinicians that are listening now that are maybe really just like soaking up every piece of clinical advice what were some resources or things that helped you earlier on in your career to develop that skillset? [DR. TIPHANIE] Consultation. We don’t live in a bubble and we don’t know everything. The realm of knowledge that we have is probably this small in comparison to everything else that’s out in the world and seek the help and guidance that you need. If it doesn’t feel right, if you’re not getting the information that you need seek help elsewhere until you get the help that you need, because we cannot do this alone. We cannot do it alone. [JOE] Well, I think so much of the counseling process, we would love to think that it’s all science based and that there’s a specific formula, but a lot of it’s the art of counseling too, of a couple brings you something and then you intuitively share something off the cuff that maybe it may not be in some Gottman handbook and it may. But there’s that art of it that you grow over time. So that consultation, even if you feel like you’re a great clinician to talk to other peers and say, hey, how would you handle this situation? I’m so glad that you start there. Any books or trainings that for you that were helpful earlier on that helped you just pick up some skills that newer folks could use? [DR. TIPHANIE] There’s a couple’s counseling book by Marina Williams. That was very helpful in terms of how to set up therapy, how to go from session to session to session so you don’t feel lost. It’s really like a template. It has some of the major models in there too, like Gottman and Sue Johnson and those but it’s a good starting point for new clinicians because like I said, it gives you a foundation. It gives you a template. Then you can tweak it because you want it to be in your voice. You want it to be your style. It is a good, very good foundation. So that was helpful for me and just reading all kinds of different modalities. EFT is my specialty, my modality of choice, so I have all of Sue Johnson’s books, all of her books. So whatever modality you’re in stick with it and look around. There’s a lot of other ones out there as well. [JOE] I often say that we’re no longer in the information age, but in the implementation age. I just think that that idea of finding your modality, your guru, your guide, whatever language you use and saying how does this person help me speed up my process? Because I mean, you could spend all day learning all these different modalities, but at the end of the day you’re the one that’s in the session with that client or those clients. Now, what about, I would love to hear just a little bit of the marketing and business side of growing this niche because one of the most common questions I get is how do you do in-person networking? How do you do online networking? How do you do marketing or SEO? Where have you spent time to get your name out there and where did it maybe come a little bit more organically and take less time? [DR. TIPHANIE] I’ve used some of your tools Practice of the Practice. [JOE] Well, thank you. [DR. TIPHANIE] I used some of your tools. I’ve also, I did minimal advertising really. Like I started on Psychology Today. I’m still on psychologytoday.com. Therapy for Black Girls is one that I’m on as well. So those sorts of places are the main places that I’ve done for advertising and marketing. I also have a Facebook page, a Instagram page as well. LinkedIn — [JOE] How much time do you put into those social media outlets because I’m always interested to hear how active or inactive people are on their social media outlets? [DR. TIPHANIE] So I’ve not always been a good girl with that but I do, so I have, my website is through Brighter Vision and Brighter Vision has a program or a part of their system where I can automate my Instagram posts and my Facebook posts and things like that. So I utilize that tool to help me there because I don’t have enough time to always post. I also try to post, but like I said, I’ve not been that good at it as I should. Trying to make sure that I have time now, I’m working on my time management to make sure that I have that time to do that while also providing quality care to my clients as well. So time management is huge. [JOE] It’s quite a balance. It’s quite a balance. Someone should write a book about that, maybe Thursday is the New Friday. [DR. TIPHANIE] Right. Thursday is the New Friday. [JOE] So you and I, right before we started recording, you were talking about how you’ve done a lot of this couple’s work, but also you’re right now in sort of a phase of transition exploration, what’s next. Tell me a little bit about what started that and what things you’re exploring. [DR. TIPHANIE] What started it is I’m a Thursday is of the New Friday person. So I see couples three days a week. With that I said, okay, I see about 12 to 15 couples a week. I think the average clinician probably sees double that during the week. So for me, I wanted to grow a greater audience. If I’m only seeing 12 couples a week, I see them that’s 48 times in a month that I’m seeing these people. But that’s a small percentage of people that need help. For me, the help that I wanted to give was only reaching this small amount of people. I said, ah, this needs to be a little bit bigger so with that I said, okay, what else can I do to get a greater audience? What else can I do? So I thought of a podcast, something with podcast, your learning school. I also am looking into doing retreats. I’m also developing an e-course off of the eBook that I just wrote just so I can reach that wider audience. To me, it just feels so, I don’t know, like we’re in a bubble. If I’m only seeing 12 people a month, I mean a week, I’m in a bubble and I’m not really outreaching. I think the pandemic had a lot to do with that because now we’re just home and we’re seeing clients in home so people are trying to find different ways to reach other people, other ways to monetize their business. So just doing retreats, doing an e-course to reach other people, for people that don’t have access to therapy for at a cheaper rate. Doing some of those things. [JOE] I think what you’re talking about so many listeners and people in Next Level Practice or in our communities are feeling that sense of doing something more and not out of a, that private practice is bad or lesser than, but in a sense that we have these skills .only 8% of the US even has a master’s degree, let alone one in therapy, psychology, MFT, like whatever that we have this skillset from the day that we graduate. Then you add on top of that years of training and writing and thinking and working with folks, then, I mean, to us you look out there and you see the Sue Johnson’s of the world and you say, who am I? But then when you look at the general population most of them have no idea even the simple things that Dr. Tiffany’s talking about. It’s so exciting for me to see people really thinking through how do I get out there? How do I develop my niche and my voice? Sure lots of people are talking about couples, but no one can do it just like you. There’s going to be people that resonate with you that if I was talking about couples, it would be very different that different people might resonate with me. So how are you deciding, if we separated this out into, you’ve got your practice, that’s going well, and then you’ve got these big ideas. How do you decide where to spend your time on the big ideas as you step into exploring podcasting, e-courses, retreats, all that sort of stuff? [DR. TIPHANIE] I think basically what you just said, like niching yourself down a little bit. Like a couple therapy is my niche. That’s what I specialize in and that’s what I got my doctorate in, but now I’m finding that, okay, I can do that but I have all of this other knowledge that, just like you said, I have all of this other knowledge professionally and personally. For me infidelity was a thing in my relationship. I’m thinking of narrowing it down to infidelity because that is a special, is something that’s very real, is something that happens to people unfortunately on a regular basis. So just niching it down to the least common denominator that you specialize in, you know about, and you have the information, it doesn’t necessarily have to be personal experience, but for me, that just so happens to be it. But if you have this thing that you’re passionate about and you really know that topic, narrow it down to that, and then if you can find yourself in a specialization, then you can reach that group of people that you need to reach and maybe others as well, because others might just want to peek at it or just look into it, but you have a certain group of people that you want to reach; finding your avatar, getting an avatar, finding out who those people are that are going to listen to you. Who is it that you’re speaking to? What is the age group? What is their race? How many kids do they have? Are they married? Are they dating? Whatever the case may be. [JOE] Now, when you think about infidelity as a particular niche, what other ways are you refining that even more like in regards to your own business avatar? [DR. TIPHANIE] Looking in different areas where those people might go, so looking into courthouses, talking to lawyers going to churches and their marriage ministries and things like that, or their divorce ministries, if they have that. So looking locally to see where are people, where are they located? Those people that have that specific pain point, where are they locate, and going out asking questions. Go to the mall and just, I don’t want to sit around. I like to people-watch, so I’ll go to the mall and I’ll see people. I’m a pretty friendly person. So I try to ask questions if I can just to gather that information, do a lot of research. I’m a researcher research. I have a doctorate in research so do a lot of research and reading as well. [JOE] Now, did you decide to write an eBook? Tell us about the eBook, but also, like you could have chose a lot of different places to put energy, but you chose to put it into writing an eBook. First, why did you start with doing the eBook as you’re entering into going beyond your practice? Then tell us about your eBook maybe after you just tell us why you started with writing one. [DR. TIPHANIE] An eBook, I think is a simple way to reach people. It’s really quick, it’s not a full 200 page book, just real easy to do. I started with an eBook because to be honest, fearful, is somebody going to listen to me? Is somebody going to want to hear what I have to say? So this was sort of, I guess, a test run to put myself out there a little bit and see how it does and hopefully from there build on. Also to get me out of my way, that’s a big deal for me, going into private practice sometimes. In a solo practice, you feel alone sometimes. So getting yourself out of, your way, out of my way was what made me decide to do an eBook. [JOE] Oh, I love that. Tell us about the eBook. How’s it structured and who’s it for? [DR. TIPHANIE] So the eBook, I know I gave you the title, but I changed the title since I last told you, but that’s okay. It’s sort of simpler, but the eBook is practical tips and strategies for keeping your marriage together and it’s to help couples regain control of their relationships with some easy steps, manageable steps to manage those rough spots that lead to disconnection. The hope is that the couples will be able to come out a little bit stronger or emerge stronger than what they were before. Again, like I said, it’s real simple, going back to communication skills, conflict resolution, the basic stuff that I find when couples come to therapy. That’s their major pain points. We don’t know how to communicate. We don’t know how to resolve conflict. So I figured I’d do something to help them at least have the basics for those who can’t come to therapy, for those who are looking, maybe they don’t have, they’re not highly escalated and they don’t need a third party to help them out. Maybe they just have a few places in their relationship that they need tweak and this might be helpful for them. [JOE] I mean, I think about like my wheels start turning right away when I hear people developing a niche, like thinking about what would be a good opt-in, what would be a good way to get an email list going to so that you get an audience that you can start to monetize. I just think even just a really short, like an e-course all about how to do a quick assessment of your marriage or of your relationship. It’s like videos of you a couple, five minute videos. I mean, that would be so valuable to people. I’m really excited about all the things you’re exploring because I think that there’s such a market for it and we need more voices and we need voices that have different ways of thinking about it. So as you enter into this new phase how do you look at your time management between, split between the practice and the big ideas? Are you like you said, you do three days a week of couple’s work. Are you spending the fourth day working on the big ideas? Are you peppering it in? It’s always interesting to just hear how people, their flow of their actual work. [DR. TIPHANIE] I do have an admin day that I do where I handle all of the business stuff that I need to handle. But I’m also during that time, if there’s not a lot of business things to do, that’s when I’m working on the eBook or the e-course and all of those different things. Flushing out those ideas. I do have a peer consultation group that I work with to flush out those ideas. Matter of fact, I have one later on today that I’m going to, Practice of the Practice. So yes, I’m constantly, not constantly because I do take some time for myself too. I do have, the self-care piece is really huge for me. So like the weekends of mine, I don’t do anything on a weekend work-related but the two days that I am off not seeing clients, those are the days that I’m actually working on business things or these projects that I refer to. [JOE] So awesome. The last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? [DR. TIPHANIE] What would I want them to know, one of the things I said earlier is get out of your own way. Whatever you have, whatever you’re dreaming of, whatever you think you can do, it’s already inside of you so go ahead and knock it out, get out of your own way. Follow your passion, whatever that may be and keep moving forward and don’t stop. If I can do it, I can do it. [JOE] I feel that way too, you just keep at it. So Dr. Tiffany, if people want to connect with you, if they want to follow your work, if they want to get your eBook what’s the best way for them to connect? [DR. TIPHANIE] They can visit my website at www.beanchoredinlove.com and for the eBook, if they want to get the eBook, they can go to payhip.com/, is it forward slash or back slash? I always get those two mixed up. [JOE] Usually forward slash. [DR. TIPHANIE] payhip.com/ailwc, which is the name of my business, which is Anchored in Love, Wellness and Consulting. They can also reach me on IG or Facebook at. The_Couples_Doc. [JOE] All right. We’ll have links to all of that in the show notes as well. Dr. Tiffany, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast today. [DR. TIPHANIE] Absolutely. Thank you for having me. [JOE] I love doing interviews like this, where people are in the midst of transition. Sometimes we always hear people that have launched something big and they’re years down the road and they reflect back on the uncertainty or where to spend their time or when I was just getting going and had just written my eBook. But I love that Dr. Tiffany, we’re hearing the story unfold in front of us. I imagine if in a year I have Dr. Tiffany back on we’re going to have a different conversation and she’ll have thought different things and got an audience and grew different streams of income. So it’s really fun to have just this level of discussion with people. Also if you’re looking for an electronic health records, Therapy Notes is the premier and top electronic health records out there. Their satisfaction is always through the roof. They will help you transition from whatever platform you’re on. And the billers that we’re friends with love the back end, because it’s so transparent between what the therapist knows, what the biller knows. It’s one of the easiest for billers and therapists to work together platforms out there. So head over to therapynotes.com, use promo code [JOE] to get your extra free months. That also helps them know that this podcast is working. We couldn’t do this podcast without our sponsors. So please head on over to therapynotes.com. Thank you so much for letting me into ears and into your brain. Have an amazing day. I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.

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