Kelly Higdon Wants to Calibrate Your Year | PoP 348

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Kelly Higdon Wants to Calibrate Your Year

Do you have clear visions for how you want your day, month and year to look like? What would you like to do more of that will make you a better person? How will you manage your time if you had more of it?

In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Kelly Higdon about calibrating your year, creating a life and job you want so that you can be a better person all round.

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Meet Kelly Higdon

Kelly Higdon is the co-founder of The Business School Bootcamp for Therapists and she also does business strategy and lifestyle fro entrepreneurs at Kelly Higdon Consulting and her latest project is teaching people how to Calibrate your Year. On any given day you will find Kelly writing, meeting with my psychotherapy or coaching clients, running a webinar for therapists, providing consultation with private practice owners and making lots of room for play time with her family.

Find out more about Kelly on his website, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn or Facebook.

Kelly Higdon’s Story

As a psychotherapist formerly in private practice, the importance of self-care on mind, body, and spirit has been hammered into Kelly’s psyche.

And yet there she was, staring in disbelief at her paralyzed face in the hospital mirror after a particularly intense week of work, and she was pregnant about to launch my first online course while also running her other business. Her workaholism had caught up to her, culminating in a cluster of migraines that quite literally stopped her in her tracks.

It was both a slap in the face and a wake-up call. Something had to change.

In This Podcast


In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Kelly Higdon about calibrating your year, letting go of things you don’t enjoy doing and how you can have more free time.

Making Room for Change

I really believe in customization of life and business.

Kelly closed up one of her businesses and it created room for her to dream bigger. When she got out of the constant hustle and bustle of business, more opportunities were created for her. She decided that she really wanted to take off as much time as she possibly could with and realized that when she took time off she came back to work more energized.


Somehow the addiction of work has been glorified and workaholism works in the brain like any other addiction.

People expect their business to fulfill different areas of their lives. Businesses are not meant to replace a marriage, your friendships or love. If your business is responsible for your happiness, that’s a problem.

How to Calibrate your Year

  • Identify your core beliefs
  • Clarify your vision, what are you trying to create – this is not just for business, it is for life
  • Get rid of stuff you are doing that is holding you back, implement steps

When you Change Things

When they have time to deal with it, they have time to heal and actually enjoy their life more.

At first there will be a lot of resistance, but eventually it will become the new norm. Some positive things that happen:

  • Let go of projects that don’t give you joy anymore
  • Don’t do things out of fear
  • Doing more things in alignment with what you want

Useful Links:

Meet Joe Sanok

private practice consultant

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.

Thanks For Listening!

Feel free to leave a comment below or share this podcast on social media by clicking on one of the social media links below! Alternatively, leave a review on iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

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[JOE] This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 348.
I am Joe Sanok, your host. Welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast. Oh, it’s such a good day. I got to do a training today with Next Level Practice where I brought in my friend Juliana Ray, who is a meditation leader and she’s been on the podcast. So, we’ve been doing these expert things with Next Level Practice where we bring in experts once or twice a month that people can ask questions and learn from and we’re helping people grow their practices. It’s so much fun. And next week, tickets open for Killin’It Camp. The early bird tickets go on sale on the 15th over at so, gearing up for that. And the series this month in January. I’m so excited for it. Last week it was Hal Elrod, today we have Kelly Higdon. Next week we have Dr. Julie Gottman. Then after that, Mike Michalowicz, he wrote Profit First and Clockwork. Then we have Allie Casazza who is just rocking out webinars. I mean it is a month of powerhouses and I’m so excited that you’re here.
What I love about today is Kelly Higdon has been really working on helping people to calibrate their year, to really design it. And that’s something that as a friend, as a fellow colleague, another consultant I really appreciate about Kelly. She’s so good at saying, “Why are you spending time on that?” And to brutally say, “You shouldn’t be doing that.” And today she does not disappoint. In fact, I wanted to record this on the same day that I interviewed her. She and I actually just talked about an hour ago and I’m so amped up over this interview. So, without any further ado, I give you Kelly Higdon.
Well today on the Practice of the Practice podcast, we have Kelly Higdon. Kelly Higdon is the co-founder of the Business School Bootcamp. She has and the newest thing she has is Calibrate Your Year. Also, Kelly’s one of my closest friends. She’s awesome. And she has a new puppy named Maple. Kelly, how are you doing?
[JOE] How’s the puppy?
[KELLY] She’s fun.
[JOE] That’s not the story I always hear from you.
[KELLY] And she’s cute and tiring but you can’t help but love her because she’s got these little puppy dog eyes. So, when she pees on the Christmas tree skirt, you can’t help but just be like, “Okay …”
[JOE] “Oh man.” Well I’m so excited to have you back on the podcast. You’ve been on a bunch of times, but it’s been a while. So, you’ve been working on this thing called Calibrate Your Year and we’re right here in the beginning of a new year. Last week we had Hal Elrod on the show and next week we have Julie Gottman and then Mike Michalowicz. So, we’ve got like a powerhouse January going on. I wanted to talk about just the shift of doing Calibrate Your Year and kind of that process of discovering that skillset because when you’ve, when you kind of landed on Calibrate Your Year, I had this sense of like, “Oh my gosh, Kelly, that is so you.” But I know like from the back and forth, it took a while to find that and figure out what that superpower. Right?
[KELLY] You’re being really gracious right now because —
[JOE] How would you frame it?
[KELLY] If you’re being totally honest, you’re like, “I’ve been watching you for years battle it out with yourself.”
[JOE] Well, take us through that battle.
[KELLY] Yeah, I love my work with therapists. I love what I do at ZynnyMe and I also love the diversity of business and the different types of business. And when I would coach other kinds of businesses, just notice these ongoing themes and my work with people and their feedback on what they’re learning. Like even when working with therapists, I say one of the biggest side effects of working with me is you get a hobby and you start having life outside of your business. I mean that’s the first thing I assess in all of my coaching clients and it’s something I monitor every month with them. So, I just started integrating it more in my coaching processes. And as I saw results from it, I don’t know why it took me, well you probably have insight why it took me so long.
I think it’s just, you know, coming from a place of, “This is what I do. I teach business for therapists,” but also having this little inkling, like there’s more. I have like a bigger message. And I think coming from my own story of my workaholism and you know, like I have to really be on myself about, I don’t want to say that one, but that’s kind of what it is, of not going overboard with work. So, it’s come from my own personal journey. It’s come from taking what I’ve learned and applying it to my coaching clients. And then from that I thought, you know, why not teach the stuff that I know works. And, I mean I’ve coached people who have multimillion-dollar companies and they still struggle with their identity and their values and how does that all get integrated and show up when they are managing a huge corporation. And all the ways
[JOE] Yes, I think it’s similar to the jump from when you’re just doing clinical work to doing coaching or consulting and then when you’re kind of known for something within the private practice space. So, you know, Business School Bootcamp and you’re consulting within that, that jump into kind of the general business world. Like that’s a crowded market. There’s a lot of people out there that just, I mean some are doing good work, some are not. And it’s like, what are you going to be known for in such a crowded space? And so, landing on Calibrate Your Year, how did you really zoom in on that that was kind of your superpower that you wanted to focus on?
[KELLY] Because of my own life, making small changes made a huge difference. Financially, physically, emotionally, spiritually, all those different areas of life. And that’s kind of where it starts. It’s from my own personal application. There’s also a lot of research behind what I teach. It’s not just, you know, I think in some of the business coaching spaces, it’s like, “This worked for me. So, I’m going to teach this model,” particularly around marketing, right?
[JOE] Sure.
[KELLY] This is what I do that. And my argument is that works for some but not all. And I really believe in customization of life and business, whatever that dance looks like. And what I teach comes from psychology, neurobiology. It’s not just this is what worked for me. It’s also, “This is what science says. This is what’s kind of tried and true.” So, looking —
[JOE] Well, take us through one of those experiences when you made a change and how you then used research and your own experience. And maybe one that I’ve never heard of because we’re pretty close, so I’ve heard a lot of your stories, but I want a new one. You can’t, I feel like there’s probably some examples that you implemented in this research and saw personal change happen.
[KELLY] Yes. So, I would say, “Oh man, you know them all, Joe. This is not fair.
[JOE] Okay. You can pick one that I don’t know.
[KELLY] I’m kind of an open book and you know me pretty well.
[JOE] Basically I want to make you choke on a podcast interview.
[KELLY] Right? That’s not hard to do. I would say a couple of years ago when I decided I wanted to challenge myself to take off as much time as I could. Like, maximize it and we wanted to take a month-long road trip and I had a few weddings to go to and like fun stuff, fun travel, not conferences and things like that.
[JOE] What happened before you decided to do that that led to wanting to do that?
[KELLY] I closed one of my businesses and sold it and I think it freed up room for me to dream bigger. And when I got out of that, but in the chair have to be there every week in and out, it just opened up possibilities for me and said, you know, I guess it was sort of this like you say you value time with your family. You say that travel is how you play, then why aren’t you doing those things? So, I think it’s also this looking in the mirror and saying, are you really being true to who you are? And are you living honestly and with integrity? And so, I know people are like, “Oh, going on, like traveling is integrity,” but with my family it is. And it’s, I don’t know, Greg and I, my husband, we do really well traveling. It brings out the best in us as a couple.
We’re not, some couples it doesn’t, but for us it does. And we noticed too traveling with Claire, my daughter, she just kind of developed. She had like these huge developmental milestones when we travel. So, it was, it’s good all around. And I think that’s the thing. It’s that constant, like what small change can get me closer to just being more in line with what I really believe about life and my purpose and who I am and how I see the world. So, there’s also a bit of core belief stuff that I had to work on to come to that as well. Saying like, “How do I really …” what I really believe about as a parent parenting my child and what I want to teach her about the world and expose her to and all these kinds of things. So, you have to be groomed for it.
[JOE] Yes. I love it. Thanks for kind of going back from the original statement of taking that month off and kind of telling us why that was important to you. So, then when you decided to do that, that month of travel and to challenge yourself to throughout that year, really work on having more time off, what did you discover during that time?
[KELLY] Well, I am not good at traveling every month. That was too much. I love taking big chunks off. And I also noticed that when I took time off, I came back with way more energy, way more creativity, and I looked forward to work. It wasn’t like, “Oh, I don’t want this vacation to ever end.” It always felt like, “Yeah, I’m ready.” Like I have new ideas. I feel inspired. So, I really believe in creating space. I know as therapists we talk a lot about holding space. But I think there’s something about clearing the room. And I do that physically a lot. You know I’m a big purger.
[JOE] You’re awesome at that.
[KELLY] I remember you walked in my house, you were like, “Where do you store stuff?” Because we don’t have basements in California like you have in Michigan. And I’m like, “This is it dude. This is the garage.
[JOE] Above the garage. We’ve got like hardly anything.
[KELLY] So, but there is something about we crowd ourselves with courses and ideas and techniques and topics in shows and trainings and all these kinds of things and it’s just clutter. And getting away man, that just totally declutters my brain and really helps me gain new perspective. Because the world will teach you. Experience will teach you. You don’t always have to have a course for everything. [crosstalk]
[JOE] Well, you see you start to live this out. Take us through some of the research you’ve discovered because you said that this isn’t just, “Oh, this is my experience, it worked for me.” You’ve actually taken time to understand the research, understand the brain. What do we need to know in regards to what science is teaching us?
[KELLY] Yeah, well first science is teaching us that we as entrepreneurs are at higher risk for depression and anxiety. Suicidality is going up as well. As a country it’s going up, but also just within the space of entrepreneurship. So, there’s that side of the research in terms of seeing that there is a need for changing some of these things. And, workaholism, so, I see this, it sounds brash, but hang with me here. If I were to go on a drug one night, people would be like, concerned, right? But if I were to say like, “Hey, I pulled an all-nighter and I launched a new course,” or “I have this new product,” people would be like, “Whoa, that’s awesome.”
“You got hustle.”
“You got hustle.” Somehow the addiction of work has been glorified and workaholism works in the brain just like any other addiction. So, it’s no different. So, sitting in and your new projects in your new ideas, you know, they’re feeding that norepinephrine. And then, you know, cortisol levels, of course you’re going through the roof, inflaming your amygdala and all these kinds of things. So, it’s an addiction just like any other. And, it is a way that people, from a psychological standpoint, they expect their business to fulfill areas of their life that their business should not be burdened with.
Your Business is not meant to replace your marriage, as a parent, your friendships. It’s not there to give you love, to meet physical needs, you know, those kinds of things. And we expect our business to do that. So, there’s also some of that if you look at like from a family systems perspective and applying systems theory to the relationship of business, I think it’s quite fascinating as well as. It’s like changing, that’s the thing, calibration effect.
Just like in systems theory, you change one little bit and it can have this kind of ripple effect into the larger system. So, if you change the relationship with work and your business just in some small way, it really can expand. And then I think the other aspect too of the research is just looking at our brain and core beliefs and where they come from and how we, the neuroplasticity research and how we change our core beliefs, and that kind of work. So, I feel like it’s this blend of the psychology with the business. Nothing really all that rocket science or new but more along the lines of just application of what we’ve known in other spaces.
[JOE] Yes. You brought up kind of the, your business doesn’t need to be supporting all these other types of things. And I often hear people say, “Yes, I just want like my practice to be like my work family.” And I always have follow-up questions when they say that or something like that. Like I get the idea of having your culture be positive and supportive and all of that. But there’s also like, people are there primarily because they want a living and yes, they can have these kinds of ancillary things that happen where they feel supported and they feel like they can thrive. But, there can also be the kind of like bad side of that is this kind of core dependence that happens and you know, inappropriate work relationships and not clear decision making as the owner. So, I love that you bring that into the conversation and saying, “You know, there’s just things that your business isn’t meant to fulfill those things for you.”
[KELLY] Yes, it’s not and I think that’s when people get most frustrated. They’re not feeling fulfilled because the business is not meant to fulfill them in those ways. And they become despondent because they put all of their energy and you know, I’ve worked with some business owners who have basically blown up their life and they’re left with a business and nothing else. And so, they’re trying to kind of rebuild and win themselves off the business so that they can have other things in their life. Like, I know some people may be listening to this and going, “Well that’s, you know, I can’t imagine that.” Well good, that’s awesome. But, it is an ongoing kind of issue I find in this hustle grind entrepreneurship stuff. And that’s why I say like, the best kind of hustle is the one that makes you a better person.
I mean, if you’re not leaving the world better, if you aren’t a better person because of this, if this isn’t an improvement, then what’s the point? I don’t care how much money you make. You know, I have a friend who, he makes millions a week and he was saying he was sitting on this yacht in France that was worth 100 million. And he thought, you know what, the chase never ends. Like here’s a yacht that’s 100 million. And the guy’s talking about the next yacht he’s going to get and he’s like, “This journey never is going to stop.” And so, once you realize that if you keep going this way, there is no end point because just as soon as you’re like, “Oh, once I hit this number, once I get these many sales or whatever it is, once I sold my practice this month or I have this many clinicians, I’ll be happy.” It just keeps going and going and if that your happiness is, if your business is responsible for your happiness, that’s a problem.
[JOE] Yes. Well I got to have you on the other podcast, on the Happitalist podcast, and I think that that’s going to be, that’s right up the alley of that as well. So, for people that are listening right now and they’re like, “Yeah, Kelly, I’m bought in.” Like, “I’m with you. I want to recalibrate. I want to like calibrate this year.” Like let’s walk them through what does it look like to calibrate your year?
[KELLY] Yes, well I think first it’s about knowing yourself and like in the course I just go through some values and strengths and core beliefs and really getting aligned with who you are than getting into the vision piece of what you’re really trying to create. And the vision is not just for the business and the vision is not just for life. It is that integration, that perfectly average day of when you are in life. You know, you take the garbage out unless I guess someone does that for you. I don’t have that yet. His name is Greg, but you know like the day to day stuff and doing what you love, whatever kind of business that is. Like how does that meld together? And then from that vision then breaking down into steps so that you can start living in that vision now.
It doesn’t come always in this huge landslide. It is step by step, being intentional and getting rid of the stuff that you’re doing or that you’re holding onto or believing in that is holding you back and cluttering up the workflow and your, you know, and the way you approach things. So, I teach about, and you’ve seen this before, like the grid of how I go from vision to tasks. You know, how does what I want five years from now inform what I’m doing today and I will tell you, it doesn’t look like checking my email five times a day. That stuff doesn’t get me closer to where I want to be.
[JOE] Take us through parts of that exercise because I think for those that haven’t seen or heard you walk people through that, what does that look like?
[KELLY] It was inspired by, I learned some of it through talking more at one of his events and then I kind of morphed it into my own. But I’m looking at mine right now as we’re talking, you can’t see me. But for example, one of the things that in my vision is to have more spirituality included in my work since that is a big part of my background and you and I have a lot of these discussions. It’s a part of who we are, but not in the same way maybe we were raised and trying to understand like how that, I feel like that’s a part of me that often gets left out. But I know that in the next five years it’s going to be more and more in my messaging and more, yeah, just more infused in that value. So, one of my goals is to, this year launch a podcast.
And so, that’s the goal for 2019 is to get this podcast that’s going to be the start of that integration. So, what all I need to accomplish in the first three months? I needed to like get the setup done and do some initial recordings. And then, so on my task list for this week is —
[JOE] Email Joe Sanok to see if he wants to be on it.
[KELLY] Okay, yeah — Is recording one of the podcasts and then I am meeting with the podcast guy. That’s going to make it just easier for me, right? So, I kind of color code so that anything on my task list you can directly take back to the bigger vision. If there is something on that list that I’m trying to get done and it’s not connected to a larger project goal or vision, then it shouldn’t be on there. Why am I doing it? And so, I think people probably roll their eyes at me, but if I’m like, I’m looking at my task list right now, one, two, three, four, five, six. I have six tasks that I had to do this week. I have one task left and I work in four days a week, very short days.
I tried a three day longer thing. It doesn’t work for me. So, four days.
[JOE] When you say short, what’s short?
[KELLY] I try to finish by one.
[JOE] Okay. And you start at?
[KELLY] 8:30, 9.
[JOE] Okay.
[KELLY] Yeah. Sometimes I go over, but you know. So, then I know each day has a zone of what I’m working on for those days and I know which zone those tasks fit into. So, I know —
[JOE] So, what do you mean by ‘they have his zone’?
[KELLY] Yeah. So, I have as a day where I’m doing creativity, I have a day that I’m doing service where I’m like providing services for clients. I have a day where I’m working on admin stuff and project management. So, each day kind of has a theme and then I take those tasks and I put them in the theme so I know which day I’m working on them. So, today, Thursday that we’re recording is the day that I record podcasts and do things with partners. So, or like appointments with anybody else. So, I had a meeting this morning with Simple Practice. We’re doing the podcast here and then I’m going to record my own podcast.
[JOE] Got you. So, it’s really pretty structured as to how you’re going to spend your time but it all goes back to that five-year plan.
[KELLY] Yeah. It goes back to, and look like what my five-year goal was three years ago is not what it is today. And it’s constantly being shaped and shifted and not see the other thing of changing that vision as life changes. It’s totally flexible, but at least it gives you a compass and a guide that’s informed by your core beliefs and your values and really what you believe about the world and your place in it. That kind of anchors that vision down and that vision morphs around it. And then the goals respond to that and then you create task out of that.
[JOE] I want to go back to that anchor because you kind of said that’s where you started. Who are you and your vision? And you I think said something along the lines and I’m misquoting you, but of kind of shutting things and adding things like getting rid of your past mindsets. So, what can people do to really kind of be anchored in on who they are and confident and, and just where they’re headed as a person?
[KELLY] Yeah, I think it is exploring just straight up like looking at the values you have. Sometimes it helps people to look at a list. I know it still feels kind of rudimentary, but looking at a values list and saying, “Okay, what are these words like?” Yeah, I feel excited when I read that and yeah, that really is me and I like that. And then you take that list and then you reduce it down till you get to kind of like what is the essence of what you value, you know? And for me, you know, honesty is one of those. And so, anything I do has to be honest and you know, how I show up on a podcast is how I’m going to show up at dinner with you and how, you know, you know me enough to know if that’s true or not.
[KELLY] But you know, like I who I am. And so, that kind of integrity is really important or … So, starting there and I think also looking at how you believe your purpose is in the world and how it shows up. So, what is your purpose? Do you feel like you have a purpose? When’s the first time you felt that way or discovered that I have, my clients do a lot of storytelling, like really understanding kind of the stories that have informed where they are today.
And so, some of those beliefs, and we talk a lot about like the committee and the people that sit in our brain basically telling us, “Oh, you shouldn’t do that or you should do that.” And looking at who has influenced me and taught me things, and are those things still good for me or not? So, kind of listening to those, your past stories, understanding them and then also evaluating kind of that internal dialogue you have throughout the day whenever you’re encountering a challenge or creating something.
[JOE] Wow, so, when people start to implement this calibration for their year, what do you expect to see change in regards to how they spend their time or how they think about their time?
[KELLY] Well, first it’s really uncomfortable and they hate it. And that will also be really revealing our core beliefs because whenever you change something, our brains like to keep things level. Our bodies want to equalize constantly. That’s a protective mechanism of ours. So, when you go change something, then your brain is going to be like, “Oh no, no, no, that, no, this is what’s normal.” You’re changing stuff and so, that’s going to rear up a lot of this core beliefs that maybe you haven’t uncovered yet, something that’s subconscious stuff. So, it gets uncomfortable and that’s why it’s good to have someone hold you accountable or, and reminds you of why you’re doing it. If you can hold onto the why, which is usually that value set and then kind of retrain the brain of like, “No, this is how we’re doing things now,” your brain will settle and start to form new connections and it will become the new norm.
So, some of the things that I see happen when people are consistent with it, they let go of projects that don’t give them joy anymore. They stopped doing some of the stuff that they’ve been doing out of fear, basically. You know, they’ve created stuff and their businesses out of a have-to or this is the way you should do it. And they start doing things a little bit more in line with what they want and what they believe is their highest and their best, whatever that is, whether are selling products or providing a service.
And then I think the biggest thing I’ve noticed is that they heal a lot of that kind of pain that they’ve been carrying around and putting in their business. So, we abuse ourselves sometimes through our work. And I noticed that when people get a little bit more clear and they condense their work into a shorter amount of time, it’s uncomfortable because the business has protected them from dealing with some of that stuff. But when they have time to deal with it, then they have time to heal and actually enjoy their life more.
[JOE] Wow. I like that you touch on how disruptive it is because oftentimes I think people say to themselves, “Yeah, I just want to work less. I want to make more. And however, they make that happen, they don’t recognize that there’s a lot of these things that are guilts that come up. So, I imagine when you first said, “I’m taking a month off,” that part of our training, you know, as you know U.S. Citizens as you work like eight to five and like a good citizen works all the time and like these things that we hear that to feel like, “Wow, if I don’t start work till 11 and I’m done by three, that somehow, like I’m not a productive member of society.” How do you personally or with your clients work through that when you’re consulting with people?
[KELLY] Again, I think oftentimes we discover that those beliefs are not our own. They are from a larger system that is meant to oppress us. Like if you think about where a lot of this comes from, it’s not something that we actually believe because we could tell our friend or loved one like, “No, you should do what you want.” And, “No, it’s good if you know …” Like for me, my body just is different and it requires a different kind of schedule. I can’t get up early before my child wakes up to exercise.
It takes me till the afternoon, you know, to be ready physically with my joints, feeling like I can do it. You know what I mean? And so, if I were to say like, “Oh, the miracle morning is what you have to do.” Do I really believe that? No. I think it’s more about like listening to my body and actually like taking good care of myself and it’s a lazy route to just kind of, to cut out our internal wisdom and to pay attention to what we, to what we need.
So, one of the things is, I always ask is like, whose voice is that? Is that really your belief? Do you really believe that you should have to work this much or that you have to do this service or that has to be done this way? Because how do we create new things and new ways of doing things? Someone has to break that mode. Is it going to be you or no?
[JOE] Well, yeah, and it’s like society just kind of develops. It’s not like there’s this one master plan. One thing starts and even this morning I was thinking about how there’s that older song like working nine to five like nobody works nine to five they work eight to five if they have a regular job because they don’t pay for lunches anymore. And then that’s if you’re lucky it’s actually like eight to six and then you don’t count when you get emails at eight o’clock from your boss or on the weekend or on vacation. And so, it’s like society just happens and people that have power in certain areas make decisions that benefit them. And then if you don’t say to yourself, “Does this work for me?” Like you’ll just go along with what other people have created for your world.
[KELLY] Yes, it’s that kind of, do you have relationship with yourself and have you developed that internal wisdom to listen to it? Because what happens is if you don’t and you build a business, especially when you start expanding to employees beyond yourself, you are creating the problem. You are perpetuating that system. You are part of it and you are playing into a larger, oppressive system as well when you don’t check in with yourself and your values and you hold to this larger society standard that we know is unhealthy, that is hurting us physically, emotionally, spiritually, in all the ways. So, I just think there’s other ways to do things better. And I’ve also noticed I make more money when I work less.
[JOE] Yeah, it’s funny how that happens. You know, it’s like whether you raise your rates and then more people want to come work with you, it’s that whole Parkinson’s Law of kind of work expands to the time that’s given. Well, Kelly, the last question I always end on is if every private practice owner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?
[KELLY] That there is an opportunity for you to slow down and really check in. And if you don’t love your business, you can change it. You are never ever stuck. And when you, if you love your business, that also means that you love your life because they go hand in hand. They’re constantly in tandem dancing together. You want a business that supports a beautiful life. So, don’t ever feel like, “I’m just stuck. This is just for a time period.” No, there might actually be a better way and it doesn’t have to be always so hard and it doesn’t have to be the big thing in your life. There’s more to life than all of this, so —
[JOE] I love it.
[KELLY] Please slow down.
[JOE] Well Kelly, if people want to connect with you, what’s the best way for them to connect with you, to check out your course, and to learn more about your work?
[KELLY] Yeah, go to and you can find out about my course, and the upcoming podcasts and all that good stuff and yeah, that’s where you find me.
[JOE] Awesome. Well thank you so much for being on the podcast and thanks for being a friend too.
[KELLY] Thank you. I appreciate our friendship so much.
[JOE] Well, I’ll talk to you soon.
[KELLY] All right.
[JOE] I just love that final point that Kelly made of that you’re never stuck. You can always do something if you don’t like your life situation. Make those changes this year. Calibrate your year. Go check out Kelly’s work. It’s so exciting to see that she’s taking these things. I’ve seen her work individually and with people too, a much broader audience. So, check that out over
Also, you know, I don’t think I can thank Brighter Vision enough. We really wouldn’t be the podcast we are today without their ongoing support. For years they’ve been sponsors and they’ve been creating amazing websites for therapists. You have to take the time that it takes to really do these deep interviews and to create an awesome podcast. It takes a lot of time and to make it worth it, it’s so awesome that Brighter Vision’s a sponsor.
So, if you’re looking for a website, you’ve got to sign up for the deal of the year. It doesn’t come around. This isn’t one of those things where it comes up again later in the year. You have to sign up this month. So, if you have been on the fence for a website head on over to We do the forward slash Joe so that they know that their podcast sponsorship is working. And so, head on over there to, get signed up for that website, and we would love to see you grow this coming year. Thanks so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Next week we have Dr. Julie Gottman. I hang out with her and I’m so excited for you to hear that interview. Talk to you soon.
[JOE] Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. We like it a lot. This podcast is designed to provide accurate authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither of the host, the guests or the publisher are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.