Live Consulting with Ellen Gigliotti: Attracting my Ideal Client and Starting a Podcast | PoP 630

A photo of Ellen Gigliotti is captured. Ellen J.W. Gigliotti, LMFT, is clinical director of Sanctuary Christian Counseling in Shippensburg, PA, with more than 15 years of experience. Ellen Gigliotti is featured on Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

Are you a therapist who serves and counsels other therapists? How do you attract your ideal client if they already move in your circles? Can you repurpose your content into other forms like podcasts and YouTube videos?

In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok does a live consulting with Ellen Gigliotti about attracting her ideal client and starting a podcast.

Podcast Sponsor: Next Level Practice

An image of Next Level Practice is captured as the sponsor on the Practice of the Practice Podcast, a therapist podcast. Next Level Practice is the most supportive community for therapists starting a private practice.

Next Level Practice is an on-going support system for mental health clinicians, counselors, and coaches who want to start and scale their own private practice featuring HUNDREDS of trainings, LIVE calls with our experts, a robust resource library, an exclusive online community, and SO MUCH MORE!

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Meet Ellen Gigliotti

An image of Ellen Gigliotti is captured. Ellen is the clinical director of Sanctuary Christian Counseling in Shippensburg, PA. Ellen is featured on Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

Ellen J.W. Gigliotti, LMFT, is the clinical director of Sanctuary Christian Counseling in Shippensburg, PA, with more than 15 years of experience. She has an undergraduate degree in psychology, earned her MA in marriage and family therapy from Evangelical Theological Seminary. She has also done postgraduate work in Gottman Method Couples Therapy, EFT, and sexual addiction.

Ellen is a member and clinical supervisor for the American Association of Marriage and Family Therapy, and the American Board of Christian Sex Therapists. Currently, she is awaiting certification from the ABCST and board certification in telemental health.

Visit the Sanctuary Christian Counseling website. Connect with them on Facebook and Pinterest.

Connect with Ellen on Twitter and LinkedIn.

In This Podcast

  • Scaling down on seeing too many clients
  • Host events for therapists
  • Launching a podcast and repurposing content

Scaling down on seeing too many clients

You can lighten your counseling demands by:

  • Not taking new clients in when old clients discharge
  • Raising your rates for any new clients

Knowing that it’s more “help the world” kind of thing than a “financial” thing, I wouldn’t put tons and tons of marketing into it… I would focus more on … where are therapists having those discussions? (Joe Sanok)

Host events for therapists

Attract your ideal client by zoning in on the spaces wherein they move. If you counsel therapists, spend time in the circles where you will meet them, such as in:

  • Local therapy networking groups
  • Hosting local therapy networking groups
  • Talking to other supervisors

You can make it more organic instead of driving a machine. Host a networking event to promote what you do and offer.

Even just to have a couple of minutes of announcements and say “hey, I just wanted to say that at our practice we’re doing some different trainings to help therapists, in particular, manage their stress and I’m taking on some new clients around that topic”. (Joe Sanok)

Launching a podcast and repurposing content

Make use of the media that you produce in myriad ways. If you write a blog, edit it and post bits and pieces over your social media around the topic.

If you write mini-articles that fall under one topic, use them as a mini-series for podcasting episodes. You can repurpose your media and content in various ways to make it work for you.

The audience that … watches a YouTube video is much different than the [audience] that listens to a podcast, so you’re not going to be stealing from your own audience. It’s really just using things that you have already created. (Joe Sanok)

Republish your work into e-courses, books, and other materials that more of your audience can interact with and purchase.

Books mentioned in this episode:

Useful Links mentioned in this episode:

Check out these additional resources:

Meet Joe Sanok

A photo of Joe Sanok is displayed. Joe, private practice consultant, offers helpful advice for group practice owners to grow their private practice. His therapist podcast, Practice of the Practice, offers this advice.

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.

Thanks For Listening!

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Podcast Transcription

[JOE SANOK] This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 630.

Well, I am Joe Sanok, your host, and I sure hope you’re having an awesome week. It’s so exciting whenever we have the cohorts open up for Next Level Practice because we have all this new energy that comes into our membership communities, people that are starting practices and they’re growing and they have a lot of just fun questions. And it’s just, we’re in the middle of that launch. So over at, you can read all about Next Level Practice. It’s our membership community for people from the moment that you say to yourself I want to start a, I almost said a podcast, a private practice. I want to start a private practice all the way through when you’re about to hire your first person.

So we have small groups, we have giant library of different e-courses, over 30 e-courses, we bring in amazing experts like Dr. Julie Schwartz Gottman. We brought in John Lee Dumas, Pat Flynn, Lori Gotlieb, a lot of people that are just amazing. And we have great people like Ellen, who is one of our guests today. We’re doing this live consulting series where we check in with people that I consulted with about half a year ago and then we see where they’re at and give them some more advice. So Ellen Gigliotti is on the show today. She’s a group of practice owner. She’s been such an active member of our community. Almost every Zoom call we have, I swear, Ellen is there taking notes and just diving in. Ellen, welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast.
[ELLEN] Thank you, Joe. It’s an honor to be on here. I love this Next Level practice and Group Practice Boss.
[JOE] Oh, I love having you in the meetings, because I feel like you always add so much. And it’s interesting because I feel like sometimes there’s people, and I’m not saying in our community, but there can be a tendency where a group practice owner almost feels like they’re too good for the people that just are starting out and I’ve never felt that from you. You always show up just ready to learn, ready to share and then people will be like, tell us about your practice and they’re just like, “What? Ellen, you are a mega practice owner.” But you just would never know. You don’t ever have that like ego. You’re just so humble when you enter those meetings and I just appreciate that so much.
[ELLEN] Thank you so much. That’s so sweet. One of the things I love the best is to mentor therapists that are younger than me or therapists that are just starting out. I just think it’s a blast. It’s so much fun to help people see their dreams come true. And I know you feel that way too.
[JOE] Oh yes. Oh my gosh, like even just kind of talking to people through this live consulting to hear what’s happened over the last six months or so going from four sessions a week to 16 sessions a week or hiring their first virtual assistant and starting to think about adding clinicians, it’s just, their life has changed. It’s totally different than what it would’ve been. So it’s awesome.
[ELLEN] That’s so true. It hasn’t even been that long that I would go back to that time and I really remember it and I just want to help everybody that I can as well. So if anything I say, or whatever can help other people, I’m good with that.
[JOE] That’s awesome. Well, Ellen we talked about, I don’t know, six months ago or so and did that live consulting. Tell me a little bit about kind of what’s shifted, what did you implement. How have things been going since we last chatted?
[ELLEN] Thanks, Joe. You actually blew my mind the last time we talked. I had some plans. So those who know me, I know most people on this podcast won’t but I was looking for some advice about how to move out of the practice a little bit because I wanted to cut back on my hours, retire a little bit. I had some thoughts about what I wanted to do and Joe, you shot holes in them. And after I thought about it, I realized that you were right and yes, you did tape me saying that you were right and my husband would love to get that on tape probably, but in any case one of the things that I had planned to do, I own a group practice in Shippensburg, Pennsylvania named Sanctuary Christian Counseling and I love the group practice and I have phenomenal, five phenomenal therapists working with me.

So there’s six of us and all, and we just have a great group practice and that’s wonderful and I enjoy it tremendously, but I am of an age where I could think about stepping back a little bit. So I was trying to figure out how to do that. And one of my thoughts had been to start a separate business essentially to do therapy for therapists, which is my passion. I really love doing therapy with other therapists. Most therapists get intimidated by that, but I just think that there’s so much that can be done there that it’s just such a, I’ve got so much experience as a therapist to be able to give some self-care and some helping tips to other therapists. It’s just an amazing thing for me.

Well, I just mentioned that, but not even in a business way, just in a self-care and how you care for yourself and how you manage being a therapist because it’s a big task. So I really wanted to spin that off and Joe, you said, don’t do that. I thought about it for a long time and honestly, I went back and forth kind of, yes, I’m going to do it. Even Joe says it’s a bad idea I think it’s a good idea and then I went back to wait a minute, all these people that I know and love are also telling me that this is a bad idea. So I finally decided to incorporate that into what I do at Sanctuary Christian Counseling. So I’m going to have to do a little bit different marketing about that so we get therapists from the state of Pennsylvania, which is where I’m licensed. I’m working on getting licensed in Maryland as well, but at the present time I’m fully licensed in Pennsylvania.

So we’re going to have to do a little bit of different marketing on that, but I’m going to keep it within sanctuary. I’m not going to spin it off into anything else. So that was very helpful, Joe. I really appreciate that. That was the major thing that we talked about. The other thing that we talked about was this idea of my husband and I starting a podcast. That also has grown a little bit and maybe I just want to let that stop there and see if maybe you have any comments or questions about where I need to go now, where you’d like to —
[JOE] Well, I would love to hear, so around the therapy for therapists, like what’s your plan right now in regards to how you’re going to market that and how you’re going to get therapists to know that you exist and then to want to work with you.
[ELLEN] That actually was my question for you.
[JOE] I just wanted to make sure we weren’t going to cover something that you already had an answer to.
[ELLEN] I don’t. I do have a few thoughts, but I don’t have a good answer to how to market that, particularly when that is not a continuing marketing direction for Sanctuary Christian Counseling necessarily. I have teammates that do all kinds of other things. They’re wonderful therapists, but I don’t believe that any of them is as interested in doing therapy for therapists as I am. So it’s kind of a marketing strategy for the next, maybe five to 10 years for me that maybe won’t continue in the long run. So I’m not sure exactly how to spin that off. That actually was my question. Thanks, Joe.
[JOE] Well, why don’t we start there? Tell me about, from a financial standpoint, do you need to have new clients for yourself?
[ELLEN] At the moment, no. In fact, I’m trying to cut back a little bit. So I’m actually only, I’m identifying people that can go to other teammates of mine and trying to urge those people to go to those teammates rather than sticking with me. I have some clients, of course, because I’ve been in practice for quite some time, that have been with me for years, but they really don’t need to be seen by me. I’m working on that process. So, no, I don’t. I’m working on cutting myself back to 10 clients a week. I think I might have given everybody the impression I was going to retire fully. I got a lot of, kind of freak out messages from people when you and I talked the time. I’m not retiring fully. I’m just cutting myself back so that I can travel and do some other things with my family and focus on the podcast a little bit as well.
[JOE] Sure. Then when you think about doing therapy with therapists, what’s driving? Is it kind of like a legacy thing, like I want to just help the next generation of therapists. Is it a, I really love that clientele? What’s the driver?
[ELLEN] It’s both actually. I’m an AMF supervisor and I love doing the mentorship of that, but this is not the same thing. So I do like the idea of helping therapists that don’t have the experience that I have, and I do love just doing it. I remember having my first therapist client, and she was a lovely person, but she intimidated me in the beginning because I was like, well, what kinds of things can I think of that she hasn’t already thought of. But I found over time that there’s a real mind connection and maybe even a heart connection that comes between two therapists talking together when one of them is just in other words, the therapist me, is just looking to help the other person make their life make sense and make their job be a joy instead of a job.

That seems to be just what drives me in that every time I have a therapist, client, I just smile. When you said what drives that, I started to smile. I know the audience can’t see that, but I just started to smile. For some reason, this seems to be something that floats my boat, just helping other people and connecting with them in a very real way that only an another a therapist can.
[JOE] And how close are you to being at 10 clients a week right now? Have you paired it down to 10?
[JOE] Where are you at now?
[ELLEN] About 25. So I have some work to do there.
[JOE] So, I mean, I think knowing where you’re at knowing that it’s not necessarily a financial thing, it’s more of a helping the world and enjoying those kind of clients thing, I would just start focusing on getting to 10 clients. Because if you can kind of phase one, get to 10 clients, so as people discharge, you’re not bringing people in, maybe you’re also raising your rates for new people so then they’re less likely to want to work with you; just the more that you can be at 10 clients, that’s going to allow you to do other things like the podcast or focusing on therapists. I think that knowing that it’s more like a help the world kind of thing than a financial thing.

I wouldn’t put tons and tons of marketing into it, but I would more focus on where are therapists having those discussions? So it could be local therapy networking groups, it could be hosting local therapy networking groups. It could be talking to other supervisors because they might be the ones that may have a supervisee that they can’t ethically do the therapy with, but they know that they should refer them out because they’re dealing with something that they just disclosed. So maybe make it a little bit more organic than the typical business strategy that I might have for a particular niche especially knowing that you’re at 25 clients who want to just be at 10 clients.

So we want to slowly kind of add that if you’re a therapist, that’s kind of the people that you are taking on, but really unless they meet a certain price point they’re probably not going to working with Ellen. So I mean I would kind of start with it being a little bit more organic than just like the whole marketing pushing to get more therapy clients that are therapists.
[ELLEN] That’s great. I’ve been working on that without maybe a real direction and that that gives me a little bit of a, maybe a bullet list of start with this.
[JOE] It’s amazing how even just hosting, as obviously things open up from the vaccine and stuff like that, hosting a meetup for therapists. That could be a great kind of networking thing, but also a great way to just connect other people. So for example, when I was in charge of the Licensed Professional Counselors of Northern Michigan I would seek out businesses that wanted to get in front of therapists and see if they would host a networking event and they would provide all the wine and food for it.

So there was a local place called Professor Quagley’s. They had like afterschool programs and they did all these kind of learning games and they did this like play in pizza on Friday nights where parents could drop off their kids and they’d learn all these like fun games. There were no screens but they wanted to know like be known as a safe place for kids to go that kind of more upper middle class families could drop off their kids. So getting 20 or third therapists there to just see the space, they were more than happy to have those therapists there. I, then was able to host this networking event free of charge for me, but then I got all this free wine and booze and stuff. The addictions therapist didn’t love it, but it is what it is. So some of those kind of strategic partnerships could be an option depending on how much time and effort you want to put into it.
[ELLEN] That’s a great idea. I don’t know that we have a Mr. Quigley’s, but that’s a really good idea. There is local networking group close to me, so maybe that’s something I could do.
[JOE] Yes. And even just to have a couple minutes for announcements and say, “Hey, I just wanted to say that at our practice, we’re doing some different trainings to help therapists in particular manage their stress and I’m taking on some new clients around that topic.” That may be something that you want to do or to weave into it if you’re the host of the event.
[ELLEN] That’s a great idea. Thank you. I had not thought of that. The whole idea of breaking out the marketing from Sanctuary kind of, and back to myself just feels so counterintuitive because I’ve spent so many years thinking how to market Sanctuary Christian Counseling rather than just me. So this is kind of the reverse, thinking of that and, it’s kind of a strange head tweak.
[JOE] Yes, and I think that to just the allow yourself to, like if you were at six clients and you wanted to get to 10, I’d say be super aggressive in your marketing and like, we can do this, whereas you’re as busy as you want to be, if not over busy. So really it’s about reigning in your schedule to have the best client load for yourself. And as people go from weekly to every other week to once a month to then kind of as needed to not immediately refill those people and to really over the next, say three to six months, try to be at 10 clients, no matter what, whether or not you’re attracting the therapy, therapist, clients to just try to get down to that 10 hours to free up that time, to do the travel and do the podcast and do the other things.
[ELLEN] Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
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[JOE] So then are there systems within your practice that are reliant on you?
[ELLEN] Unfortunately, there are.
[JOE] So we’d want to make a big list of everything. Like imagine Ellen was going to go to Asia for two months and you’re going to have spotty cell phone service, spotty internet, or you just were going to choose not to check your email or anything for two months. What needs to happen to make sure the practice doesn’t fall apart when Ellen’s gone? That’s really kind of where we’d want to, I’d say over the next six months, get it so that you can genuinely step back as much as you want to step back while still supporting the business and helping it continue to grow.
[ELLEN] I’ve been working on that. Group Practice Boss has worked on that a lot and has really helped me to think that through. So I have been working on that a little bit. I’ve come up against a couple of hurdles, but that is part of my goal. That has to happen. You’re absolutely right. Actually I do want to go to Asia for not two months, maybe a month and a half.
[JOE] Oh, sweet. Where in Asia do you want to go?
[ELLEN] Well, we’re actually hoping to take part of a world cruise next year. So we would actually leave from New York and we would wind up, well, I guess it’s not really Asia, but we’d wind up in Australia. It’s close enough though. It’s closer than Pennsylvania is.
[JOE] Right.
[ELLEN] Not quite Asia, but kind of, at least towards the Pacific.
[JOE] Well, and that’s a good motivator to be like I’m going to be on a cruise. I don’t know if I’ll have access to internet or want to be managing a practice while you’re on this epic cruise. To be able to really have things set up, that’s a great end goal to say, I want to be able to go on this cruise for six weeks and not have to even worry about the practice, unless there’s something that really flares up. So I think that’s a great reason to be able to go do that.
[ELLEN] It’s a good motivator for me. That’s for sure.
[JOE] Yes. Well, so let’s talk a little bit about the podcast. Where are you at with that? What are you thinking around that? Is it still on the front burner or not really? Tell me about the podcast guest.
[ELLEN] Sure. It is absolutely on the front burner for me. I am very enthusiastic about it. We’ve been working on it. We have a kind of a dossier of ideas and we’ve done a lot of thinking about what form it’s going to take. To be honest with you, I know as part of Next Level Practice you had John Lee Dumas on, and as you said I like to be part of the webinars when I can be, and I was on that one and his book really has blown my mind a little bit. The one that you provided. Thank you very much.
[JOE] The Common Path to Uncommon Success?
[ELLEN] Yes. And that has been amazing and I probably wouldn’t have known about that if it been for Next Level Practice I’m so grateful for that, because that book has really kind of given us a little bit of a roadmap in our thinking in terms of choosing avatars and actually thinking through what platform we want to be on and how we want to do that. That has just really been amazing. So we’ve narrowed down a little bit of a focus. We’re starting to think about the program. What we’d like to start with is we’d like to start with 30 short one to two minute videos that we will also transcribe that would be common problems that people have with their marriages.

Then we’re going to do short videos on those, put them on our YouTube channel and then kind of launch the podcast idea from that, I think. That’s what we’re working on. The podcast, we’ve kind of got a title to it. We had one to begin with, but we’ve added a little bit to it. So it looks like it’s going to be called two for marriage; steps and missteps for healthy long-term marriage. We’ve done some research we’ve done. We’ve been actively working.
[JOE] Good, good. Now if you’re going to record all of those videos, why not use those 31 minute videos as your kind of first round of podcast?
[ELLEN] I guess we could. I had not thought of that. They’re so short. I think I was thinking that maybe that wouldn’t be appropriate. Would that be something that would be advisable?
[JOE] I mean, I think, you can say in season one, we’re going to be doing a bunch of short one to three minute. I would be surprised if you guys can cover much in one minute. I mean, one minute goes by rather quickly. So I’m going to guess that if you sit down and try to do 30 videos, they’re probably going to end up being three to five minutes each. So even if they’re super short, like three to five minutes whether you do that daily or every other for two months to just say, “Hey, season one is going to be these super short form videos that you can watch on YouTube. Or you can just listen to the audio here,” the audience of a person that watches a YouTube video is much different than a person that listens to a podcast.

So you’re not going to be kind of stealing from your own audience. It’s really just using things that you’ve already created. Actually, as we plan out the Thursday is the New Friday launch, which by the time this airs will actually have already happened, we’re planning out videos that we can use the audio for the podcast and for other things too. So the more that you can, multi-use things, it just saves you time.
[ELLEN] Absolutely. That’s a brilliant idea. We’ve been considering a bunch of different options and we were planning to reuse the content, but that just really, I never even thought about doing that. That’s a great idea. And because we have identified those 30 things we wanted to talk about, even though we haven’t done them yet, we have that ready to go. So that’s a really good idea.
[JOE] Then you can use those videos also for Instagram TV or Instagram Reels if you want to do that. You can then embed those videos onto your website and then have that transcription there. So then that’s going to help with SEO. So I mean, there’s a lot of ways that original 30 videos, you could repurpose in a lot of different ways.
[ELLEN] I’m a big fan of repurposing content, let me tell you.
[JOE] I mean, even if you just took those 30 episodes and you’re already having them transcribed for the website then brought that all together in an eBook or something like that you self-published through Amazon that then is going to help with if someone Googles your name, because you’re then have an Amazon book. I mean, there’s just a lot of ways to repurpose it so that you’re not starting from scratch every single time you’re creating something new.
[ELLEN] Oh, that’s fantastic. I really am so grateful to have that thought because not that I wouldn’t have, the eBook is something that I’ve been thinking about for some time in regards to a bunch of blogs that I’ve written for Sanctuary. So I’ve done a lot of that. I’ve done a lot of blogging on that and I’ve been thinking about that, but I had not thought about it in regards to these 30 videos. That’s a great idea, too. Wow.
[JOE] Then you can, I mean, you think about what kind of email opt-in would you have that would be a call to action on the podcast, because you don’t want just passive listeners. You want people that you can communicate with after the podcast. So if you then said, okay, so someone watches these 30 videos or they listen to these 30 podcasts, what would be supportive for them in moving forward? So then to write out a nine-part email course, that kind of goes along with it. So if you’re liking these short form five-minute videos or short form five-minute audio through our podcast, you’re going to love our email course.

In that course you’re going to learn these five steps that help you have a stronger marriage where also then after you get through the first nine emails, you’ll get a weekly email just with some awesome prompts to have conversations with your partner. so then you always want to be thinking about, okay, someone loves my podcast. What do they do next? They love this video. What do they do next so that they can go a little bit deeper? And you want that early on to be that email course so that you can capture those emails and then eventually create products that you can offer to people.
[ELLEN] That is a great idea. Joe, I’m very appreciative of this because you just laid out kind of a plan, almost like a do this, then do this, then do this, then do this all based on this 30-video content. Three to five minutes, you’re probably right, because I’ve been a marriage therapist for so long. I probably can’t keep myself to one minute. I mean, that’s probably impossible. So that’s a really great idea and I appreciate that you kind of did it in order kind of like, well, once you’ve done this, then you can do this and once you’ve done that, then you could do that and once you’ve done this other thing, then that opens up the door to do something else. We are really only talking about to some degree this, up until the last point, the email course, we’re only talking the same content.
[JOE] Right. And I mean, if any of that, you’re like, I don’t know how to edit a video. I don’t know how to get that on Instagram Reels. Like our whole team does all of that for a bunch of podcasters. So just reach out to Sam and she can kind of walk through what it would cost. You’ve been an active part of the community, so she knows you. We have a whole media team now. I think we have six people in South Africa that are doing video, they’re doing Instagram management, LinkedIn management, all of it, all that design for people, show notes, sound engineering, all of it. So then you don’t have to learn all those systems from scratch when honestly, like if you did one or two extra counseling sessions, it would pay for the hours and hours and hours that you spend learning all that stuff.
[ELLEN] Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s awesome. I will absolutely do that.
[JOE] Well, Ellen, you’ve got your marching orders. You’ve got so much that are going to make it so you’re working less so that you can go on this worldwide cruise. You’re going to have an amazing podcast. You’re going to just be rocking it out and helping the world, helping therapists. It’s so awesome to hear all the things that you’re working on. It’s really incredible.
[ELLEN] Thank you, Joe. I probably couldn’t have done a lot of it without Next Level Practice and Group Practice Boss, truthfully.
[JOE] Oh, well thank you so much. That’s so great to hear. If people want to connect with you or learn more about your practice, where’s the best place for them to connect with you?
[ELLEN] We do have a wonderful website. It’s and is my email address.
[JOE] Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast.
[ELLEN] Thank you, Joe. It’s been an honor and a privilege.
[JOE] I just love doing these live consulting calls to connect with people that have been so active in our communities and that have really been killing it. It’s just awesome to see what Ellen’s doing, how she’s kind of reshaping her career and her podcast and deciding she wants to go on a world cruise. I mean, I love travel. So the idea of let’s clean up these systems, not just to clean up systems, but because, she’s going to go to Australia, that’s amazing. That’s really awesome. So make sure you as well take action. I hope you took a ton of notes for wherever you’re are at with your phase of practice.

We have a membership community for every single phase of practice and a number of our folks have dropped those names. We didn’t even prompt them to. It just comes naturally when you’ve had a tool that’s really helped you. Next level practice is our membership community that is aimed entirely at people from that moment that you think, I think I want to start a private practice all the way through your first hire, so usually six figures or so. Then when you want to hire your first person Group Practice Launch is a six-month program that Whitney and Alison lead to walk you through that hiring and the paperwork and all the things you need to have set up. Then after that’s Group Practice Boss, once you are a Group Practice Boss.

so we have all these great things to help support throughout that process. On November 8th, we actually have our last cohort of 2021 opening for Next Level Practice. So if you are in that phase of starting a private practice and haven’t yet hired your first person, Next Level Practice is for you. Head on over to and you can read all about it. We’ve had experts like Pat Flynn, Dr. Julie Schwartz Gottman, John Lee Dumas, Lori Gotlieb and a lot of other people that are just helpful experts. You get to be in a small group, get accountability partner and get access to over 30 different e-courses. It’s everything that you need to start your practice. So we would love to have you in there. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have an amazing week. I’ll talk to you soon.

Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. We really like it. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.

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