Our 300th Episode with Pat Flynn, John Lee Dumas, Kelly Higdon, and More!

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Our 300th Episode with Pat Flynn, John Lee Dumas, Kelly Higdon, and More!

In this podcast episode, our 300th episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Patt Flynn, John Lee Dumas, Kelly Higdon, and more!

In This Podcast

Timeline of Practice of the Practice

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Meet Joe Sanok

private practice consultantJoe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.






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Podcast Transcription

POP 300

[This is Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok Session Number 300.]

Welcome to The Practice of the Practice Podcast. I’m Joe Sanok, your host. Welcome. I’m so glad you’re here. This is episode 300. I can’t believe I’ve done 300 of these podcasts. Wow. Thanks so much for being with us all this time. It’s incredible to just watch what Practice of the Practice has become. I’m so excited what it will become in the future. What if you just take a minute. Let’s go back in time a little bit.

Maybe quite not that far. That is some kind of fun music. You know, it was in 2012 that I had started Practice of the Practice and I remember listening to Pat Flynn’s Smart Passive Podcast and I had dreamed of interviewing Pat Flynn.


And that’s when light bulb light out for me because I had helped myself and a few other of my co-workers passing exam in the architecture industry. That’s where I came from. And to keep the long story short, in October 2008, I published a study guide. I turned a website that I had to help myself pass this exam. I sort of shared it with the world. And I made 3 or 4 times more money than I did in that first month than I did as an architect. And so, that really changed my life and really that perspective of online marketing and online business because beforehand, every time I heard about internet marketing and online business was very scammy and just car sales and like. That’s not who I am at all. And here I was sort of accidentally falling into space and doing it in a way where I was being honest, and I was providing value, but people were also thanking me and paying me in return for that information I was providing them to help them pass this exam.
That’s been my business model ever since. I’ve since built all other businesses and have followed the same business model. I just give, give, give as much as I can. It has always come back many times over. And, it’s just a huge blessing. And, most people know me now from smartpassiveincome.com. Aside from I started to share my journey and how I sort of recovered from getting laid off. And, I’ve built businesses and publicly share how it goes. It doesn’t always go well but it’s always a lesson and you know, I think, I consider myself of all my business using transparent methods, just really sharing everything that happens and hoping people learn along the way.

Hey, this is Pat Flynn from smartpassiveincome.com. I wanted to congratulate Joe on your 300th episode of Practice of the Practice. I had over 1500 episodes of podcast myself, so I know all of the hard work that you put into it. And more than the success that you’ve had, I’m so proud of the fact that you still continue to care for your audience and help people. That’s really what’s most important and it’s no surprise to me that you’re succeeding because I know that that’s your primary goal. So, congratulations. Here’s to the next 300th and looking forward to hearing more.

Next, I learned about John Lee Dumas through Pat Flynn. And John has this thing called Entrepreneurial on Fire. And, I was like, “There’s going be to a way someday that I’m going to be on this show.” And as many of you know, I ended up being on the show this year. But, you know, it was a while back that he and I actually connected when he was in the “How to be a Consultant Podcast.”


And now, John Lee Dumas, the man. We’re going to learn from him all how to grow income. Well, what’s one thing that our listeners can do to start to move towards growing income as a consultant today or this week?

Those conversations would be the one thing. There’s nothing more important. Actually, having those conversations with people that are already in your community or just entering your community. Set the time aside in having those one-on-ones and asking them those questions.
Hey, Joe, this is John Lee Dumas of Entrepreneurs on Fire and I just wanted to say, “Brother, congratulations on Episode 300, an absolute massive accomplishment. And, the ripple effect that you’re having on this world, sharing your message, your mission, your voice. It’s absolutely incredible. So, congratulations. Keep up the heat and keep igniting the world.

Honestly, when I landed some of those of bigger names, I didn’t maybe show it but got kind of cocky. I thought that this consultant thing – the “How to become a Consultant Podcast” was going to explode. I was going to be famous. I was kind of be in the inner circle. But, it didn’t. It ended up… I sold “How to be a Consultant School” but you know, that time in my life, I think I really sway away from who I really am. I’m a person of adventure and excitement. You know, challenging the norm and finding my authentic self and having landed these big names felt more like something to brag about, which I wouldn’t say was a dark time, but it was a time that I think if I was to go back and see myself. I probably would not have liked myself that much. But one person that really helped ground me is fellow consultant Kelly Higdon. She and I had connected. We were launching the most awesome kind of friends with Miranda Palmer and Julie Hanks. You know, I think she really helped ground me because she understood what it’s like to be a private practice consultant and have a family and have successes but also have failures.
So, when people are evaluating that 20% that they get 80% of the results, other than doing a time study, and looking at the resources, what else can they do to really evaluate. Okay, should I go to this school? How do I develop this school – all of that?


Thank you. I want to make sure there’s a need for it and what that looks like especially if you’re doing something that no one has done before. Like I think about when we did some awesome comforts. That came from a desire to go into a conference that didn’t suck. There’s plenty of conferences that have a strategy I guess, now that I think about it.
Hey, Joe. This is Kelly from Zenemy and I just want to say congratulations on 300 episodes of your podcast. I’m so grateful to call you friends and to have you as a colleague. I just love how you are helping other therapists and their private practices. Congratulations.

Next, I really started to realize it trying to make it in just the business where I wanted to be. But, I really wanted to help clinicians. I really wanted to have that sense of disrupting things. I knew that having people like Kelly and other folks on my side that I could consult with would really help. And, I knew I had to have a team. And so, over time, I started to add more people to serve more of the clinicians. I had some virtual assistants. But then, Emily came along and so did Sam. Emily is Director of Details and Sam is Chief Marketing Officer. Both of them taking on so much kind of content in the weight of Practice of the Practice. And then, Allyson Pigeon as well as a consultant so I started to expand beyond me to serve more people. It’s been amazing to see the impact with next level practice and with growing our next level mastermind groups, slow down school, all these things. Now, we have a team. We really can seek to disrupt what has been the norm in private practice. Some people left voicemails to take about the impact of Practice of the Practice.


Hi, Joe. This is Jenna Fleming from Georgetown, Texas just north of Austin. And, I own Georgetown Child and Family Counseling. I’ve been listening for about 5 years and I actually started following you before you started your podcasting. Congratulation on your 300th episode. The biggest action I have taken from you, Joe, is starting my own practice. And, it seems obvious, but I really sat in my comfort zone as a school counsellor for years, which I really like, actually, really love. But, my heart was called to open a private practice and because you made it so accessible for us, by leading in your example and writing down how to start a private practice, how to grow private practice, and how to scale. I was able to see this is something that I can do. And another fact, I really owe myself, my family, and the community. So, thank you, Joe. I also just want to thank you for all of your constant inspiration. And, how you play seems so complicated to small steps so that is something that I am personally grateful for. And, congratulations to you, Joe.

Hello this is Jumoke Omojola from Omaha, Nebraska where I own Jumoke Omojola, J Transformations LLC. I have been listening on and off for about 6 months. Some actions I’ve taken include not accepting every client because I’m frantic to have clients. I’m more comfortable owning who I am and embracing my imperfections. I’m so getting there. I also felt I would benefit from a group of like-minded therapists and I joined next level practice. I’m encouraged after listening to the podcast and being in the group that I had something to offer some people and not to be scared of small times. Thank you, Joe, for all that you do.

Hi, Joe. My name is Lauren Provencher and I’m the owner of Peace of Mind Therapy in Berkeley, Michigan. I’m a faithful listener of the podcast and my favorite so far has been the Christopher Lochhead series and The Five Fierce Females in February. I found your checklist to be particularly helpful in starting my own business. I started my practice in the fall and I’m looking at heading a clinician. Also, simply listening to your podcast, I now work with Practice Solutions. I found them to be very professional and viable in doing my billing. I’m hoping to use your consulting soon, one day. And, one day we’ll be part of Slow Down School in Traverse City. Thanks, and congrats on number 300!

Hi, Joe, and congratulations on the 300th episode. This is Katie Englert in Paducah, Kentucky, where I own and operate Compass Counseling. I’ve been listening for years at this point and I have grown my private practice started over the past 5 years. I learned how to grow deeper in my practice and preparing to grow to the next level for myself and for my practice. Thank you to Joe and The Practice of the Practice for encouraging the people to private practice. Congrats!

Hi, Joe. This is Heena Khan from Dallas Texas where I own Uplift Counseling Services. I’ve been listening to your podcast. I want to say, sometime in the middle of last year, around maybe summer. It’s been some months since. Some actions I’ve taken or what I’ve kind of absorbed from your podcasts, you know, I’ve just started my practice and it had been probably a year. I really kind of learned some of the nuts of bolts of running a practice and some things I need to work on, some things I need to improve on. I even tried podcasting and I learned a lot about some of the, you know, Pat Flynn, some other names that you’ve taken. I’ve gone to their sites and I followed their posts. And, it’s been really helpful to get the resources that you provide in your podcast and on your site and the blogs. As a new therapist in private practice, that kind of truly free value is so valuable because, you know, I was bootstrapping. I’m still fairly new so I think it was really helpful to have a lot of information that was generously put out there to help therapists like myself. So, thank you for doing that. I think it really did help me in many ways.

You know with 300 episodes under our belt and hopefully thousands more to come, you know, I can’t help but just be grateful. Every day I get to jump in to mastermind groups and hear your stories, and going to next level practice, and do Q&A with you, and make a good living while still feeling like, “I really get to help people get their lives back that they don’t have to live in the model that we’ve been told that we have to live.” At my core, at Practice of the Practice core, we are your rebels. You are disruptors. We are people that are saying, we are going to do this our way. We’re going to do it in community because no one can do it alone. We’re going to try to use the best resources even if we’re terrible at technology. But, we’re going to do it in a different way. I love that you’re joining me on this journey. I love that we keep growing. I love that you are sharing these with your friends. It blows my mind that we crossed 100,000 downloads in 1 month, and we crossed the million-download mark. It’s mind-blowing. Just know that I love seeing you grow. I love seeing you scale. I love seeing you start these practices, these big ideas in podcasts, in e-courses. You, people, are insane. Thank you for letting me be one of your guides on this journey. So, thank you for letting me into your ears and into your brain. I’ll talk to you soon!