PoP 106 | Clay’s NYC Practice Consultant Roundtable

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private practice consulting

In this session, we discuss Clay Cockrell’s New York City Counseling Practice, Walk and Talk. Julie Hanks, Kelly Higdon, and Miranda Palmer join me for the first of three consultant roundtables. The four of us are doing a conference May 19-21, 2016 called The Most Awesome Conference. At it we’ll be deep diving with you on how to grow your practice. Also we have food trucks, massage therapy, and a bunch of surprises. To discover more and see if it’s a fit for you, check out www.MostAwesomeConference.com 

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PoP Culture Meet the Consultants












Joe Sanok

consultant headshot JoeJoe Sanok, MA, LLP, LPC, NCC is one of the world’s leading private practice consultants. He is the owner of the Traverse City counseling practice, Mental Wellness Counseling. Joe helps counselors to start private practices and grow them.




Podcast Transcription

Pop 106 | Clay’S Nyc Practice Consultant Roundtable

[0:00] Music.

[0:27] Hello everybody so glad you are joining us here today in the practice and the practice podcast i have three of my favorite people here,
maranda pulmonary kelly hey dan and julie hanks the most awesome conference crew before we dive into our consulting round table today,
i wanna tell you a little bit about our sponsor and its brighter vision greater vision is so awesome they have the best all in line,
oh my gosh you guys are making me laugh so hard i love kelly marie and julie are making faces at me on skype right now and the transfer of my game i’m not will it happen now i’m not gonna let it happen.
Sell me a brighter vision they have amazing website you guys have heard about them from you before,
and if you spent five thousand dollars and still get the same quality website for two bucks a day you get me the web sites check of some of the people are saying i’m over at leaks well this center and,
is switching on a brighter vision is by far the best business decision i’ve made i’m so excited for my website be up and running sam my lead developer totally rocked it out so we’re super excited that they’re also sponsors of the most awesome conference so.
Without any further ado i give you three of my favorite consultant problem that favorite consultants in the world kelly maranda and julie how you guys doing today.
How do.
I was trying to make you laugh now we were just your vision so much.

[2:10] Yeah yeah what’s to talk to you holding you will do because we did this last year and just kinda give it a whirl is what some of the most listened to podcast and,
people are so excited to hear the four of us is collaborate and talking about people and have a round table fashion so,
we’re doing it again for the next three weeks the four of us are gonna be looking at people’s websites and their business is just brainstorming how to help them out.
So we not gone in clay who he submitted some information about his business so let’s play that right now and then let’s talk about clay.

[2:47] Hi this is clay cockrell i’m a licensed clinical social worker.
And i would love to have your thoughts on my website walkandtalk.com.
And it all spilled out walk and talk.
Dot com this is little david and i would love to have your thoughts on what kind of things.
And also i would love to be able to expand this to where i’ve i hired another therapy.
I want to work for me and not have it so connected with my name on it so thank you very much i look forward to hearing from.

[3:30] Alright so clay’s got some questions there about his website what he can do to improve it and inclinations and have a movie with me just being focused on himself.
We pulled his website walkandtalk.com who’s got some thoughts brenda.

[3:48] Yeah you know i really love about the flip side is that i looked at it ten years ago when i started my practice and i was doing research on this is one thing that i researched because i had actually been doing.
Walking toxins in the employee assistance program i didn’t really know just the fun little thing for that i do i thought a bait out cuz it runs.
I thought there’s a way to do this to my imac to which i came upon clay cockrell and i was just so excited in prostate with something that i integrated into in summer part of cactus but.
I think one of the things that is that really stands out to me is that the website.
What it looks the same as it did ten years ago and he has held up really well and a lot of sites that they look ten years old and his i feel like.
It looks it still is kind of in the modern space i think the thing that.
He is the most for me is that the video on the front page is from ten years ago and simply doing an updated video.
About walk and talk therapy,
i can make such a huge shit that’s also where you can highlight the other people better that are gonna be coming in the other therapists you can have a a little.
Delhi of their place that they can go on a walk with.
They can each to their own intro videos all of those things just the video aspect could really shift this.

[5:20] And the still have all the great social proof from the media that happened no ones asking will we on good morning america ten years ago or ten minutes ago does matter,
so he’s already got that social proof there by having the logos now it’s just about,
updating the videos making the modern creating more of a connection with the if there is a hires now those are great points so cool that he can inspired you ten years ago lol.

[5:50] I i really actually impressed that i can go on there in twenty seconds i totally get what it’s about which is really rare.
I am particularly for older sites to sometimes like who are they what they do this is really clear so i would just update.
You know some of the colors i might do more of a lighter background with.
I like the outdoors the colors i think that’s nice and i would definitely put a picture play i put a picture of you on your banner,
somewhere in addition to the video and i need to know the videos ten years old so i like school it,
it’s very effective.
And i would just like not the colors can of update that you are the fonts and then put add a photo of you,
and make because you know you wanna expand beyond just you right now it’s you and i wanna be able to touch,
with you as a person and medically so maybe so when he says adding people like would you take him off of that header or would you do it that point.

[6:55] What time is it in the past away in my clinic in definitely in the face of my clinic.
So when i think you can come around because it’s his thing so people me work for him but there gonna be far away and the credibility that he’s created so i think you could go either way okay.

[7:19] In cali what about you what do you notice and cleaned everything that’s the sad and for me on.
It is cuz i have poor eyesight back and little bigger font and not gonna you know not the,
white on the dark background is a lot of texts and i’m not sure where to go which is nice to have the video cuz that’s.
Like right now i don’t have time to update the video just format it a little different league cut it a little better at change the music some of you wanna freshen it up.
I would be nice what i’m really sassy i is like all these.

[7:59] Like topics that are liking this weather single but looking religious views.
Okay here it is there are is like what’s going on and why do i know about that so i think.
I have another song other great concert down here that’s getting missed on that baby could be on you know i page you know talking about common issues that people,
a dress intersections and of course when you collisions it’s gonna be you know in your head or its gonna say outer counseling sessions.
I’m in manhattan with walking talk therapists you know and having a click the guessing about looking and,
like it’s really like that page is really well written it starts of the quote from mark twain,
what a fish for love bait with your heart not your brain and then it says coming complaints that craigslist is full of losers and weirdos ask.com and other internet dating services are too limiting like,
so i think that like he captures like the bar scene is hopeless yeah.
But like that’s heating goes into dating in new york requires like that you know that you’re the products you know how what you bring to the table.
He seems to really can zero in on his purse and he’s trying to track but i wonder if i have any just kinda hidden in the footer to me it’s more like.
It’s just try key word pack all the and that is everything fit maybe if you’re gonna move into more.

[9:34] Group of people working within these are kind of important things be on our media because the media features clay right any usb port but,
you can ever stuff going on and its juicy that i don’t want it to be missed so that’s my one big.
Box how would you and i am asking all three of you like so he’s got addiction recovery single but looking weight loss religious abuse creative spirit of the artists like how would you spotlight that different lee,
so then he gets or to draw those cacti.

[10:09] To live health seminars as a ham really.
I think he could he get mad a specialty or something like a drop down menu with them or have them on the home page as bullet points with links.
That will go to that page does a couple of suggestions that i have but part of me likes that they’re not featured like i i’d like that it’s very clear what.
He’s about this is kind of a sub cat subcategories of specialties.
Cuz i think there so much variety down and if it all thrown at you on the homepage of like what wait what do you do so i.
I would either just listenable appoints or have and or have a drop down menu.
And yeah i have some comments about the blog but oh yeah that’s it but you know i know we can only use and you have the sectional leaks you know,
stop that man replace that was specially like with julie say.
And you know it got an ass as ceo and stuff going on here at you don’t need this kind of page with.
I have a lease and stuff like that when you wanna shoot people off of your website yet so that’s another reason to accept would you change his menu up at the top it all.

[11:39] Yeah i could i would but the media about when i mean that’s usually where people are quitting and keep that really for the people that you’re wanting to engage with.
And the buyer of course would go into the meet the team ma’am area they could have.
He says and then the contacts.
Maybe even have that be something my contact for free consultation at the router the top i did notice that on many of the.
Pages is not clear call to action it’s only on the homepage i am once i get off of the home page does not even like yours the phone number of your saline drip or no like it here even though i know he has on schedule,

[12:31] It seems like that would be yeah it is one of the biggest things i see counseling websites miss is putting the phone number in your header like,
people in usa probably to figure out if they wanna work with you so put the phone number in the header so that it’s on every single page.

[12:47] And make it please yeah hope you consolidate those menu items on his website like what would you what would be your and five or so that could make it easier for the user.

[13:00] Anybody there it’s i say how long will meet the team services contact.
Thanks i know julie would you have faq to.

[13:14] No he is kinda out i mean i would the blog sorry i blow the plug-in of the blood of their.

[13:23] Okay i will yeah but i i would instead of contact i would put.

[13:29] Make appointment or appointments or something that in that is there inviting action and that’s on every page of the header so it’s that easy to stop okay i’m sold i’m gonna make an appointment play nice.

[13:44] Julie said you have thoughts on blog when he hasn’t been updated in two thousand nine which way.
So fresh content restaurant and is really important and then also.
What cheeses two thousand nine is that the images are really important and sell their the blood pressure are.
They are great topics that they don’t have any images or and your many box for five years so.
And its in park forest is is the older pictures well.

[14:23] So what is the use young so happy his bio picture and i think actually like if you could come by like that’s a hydraulic age i think it’s more current i actually like it is more personable and the tire image of the blog.

[14:38] Agreed thank,
is it for some reason is not able to do concert right now or he’s kind of the struggling with that just taking the day off,
and having a va make social media men images and share these on pinterest and.
Share them and see what’s coming out and see where this is information that is impactful to people as opposed to just having it just,
set there and put in the simile me.
Make it easier for people to share the information looks like you’ve got pending turned on but doesn’t actually have any animal images so it’s on him like.
No it is on a piece share say no what about his goals of adding conditions like what could you do with the website but even jumping it on the website what she clay be considering.

[15:34] In hiring people are just and just for the ones that are shooting himself to be ready to hire people its then when his next steps what would you do if your working with clay and addresses goal of bringing our team in,
maybe him doing what the locking talk well i would say make sure he has is he tall and has a waiting list.
And then re and now bringing people and that’s how it ended is more organically like okay.
This is working like bringing someone else okay lets and then kinda grow.
As you have the need i would also look for somebody who has a has.

[16:18] Complimentary specialties maybe something that i can i always look for someone who has the exact same specialties me so i can refer to.
People just directly to them and then someone who has other specialty areas that i don’t have to be able to reach more people so there’s a couple things i would.
Look for yeah yeah you do anything.
I think that we are sticking position making sure all of his accounting is like ready for bringing on a w two or ten ninety-nine and he’s in new york and.
Think new york has two more w two family than ten ninety-nine friendly and so depending on how he’s gonna structure with walk and talk and hummus for of logos setting some of the logistics just making sure.
The counting the finances this is set up and then i would say i really just making sure that he does have aqua teen mindset that he is able to.
Speak to how do ii kind of put someone in only in with another counselor,
rather than just you see myself no for myself lot of people know me.
And great to see you so and how do you compare and don’t julie taught me you say i’ve hand selected these people i’ve trained them these are the people that i brought in to reflect me bastien so make sure the clay county has that speech down,
as to how you when someone comes and pivot to say why you made some good morning america but yeah i’m fall in then how do you retain that client.

[17:48] I’m so switches nothing making it is easy as possible for people to pay and get paid and all that i’m assuming his private pay so making sure that you practically that as well.
When do that i would be really mindful of his is the insurance not practice insurance peace and if you’re doing in therapy outside of the office how what’s covered.
You know i don’t know that like i am promises insurance for quick slip and fall injuries that happened inside of my clinic but i’m not sure if i’m curious about how that works when your outside of the office,
so that would just be something particularly if you are on point other people.
Yeah man i noticed is that it’s doesn’t seem to be responsible least on my screen as i’m scrolling it back and forth so i’m not sure.
If this is mobile friendly are not mobile friendly and checking on my phone as of yet and when i do i’m obviously looking up walk and talk therapy he’s on the pocket top of the list but when i try to go in for some of the other key with but i see.
And i try to search and see if he’s on the top page of google i’m not seen him on the top page of google yeah mostly sees getting dinged for his lack of updates and responsiveness and,
i know in talking to clay that he had said that he used to rank pretty high and i know that he’s working with legendary lion to update the website and so.
My guess is they’re gonna be doing that for responsive web site or affect you is.

[19:23] Cool so is the water maybe just a couple quick action items other than what we’ve already mentioned that you guys would wanna see clay start to work on for walk and talk therapy.

[19:37] I number one cray a very clear list of exactly what kind of personality you want working with you,
you have people who are in who are working outdoors you are there is going to be less oversight for in a fan.
Even to the office yesterday hear people through the door and you get a sense of how they interact with people but this is going to be very independent position,
and for a while and the individual so you need to get really clear about what you’re looking for also get to know who you are as a person and what personality spit well,
and what for people bad and can’t mesh well together as a team,
because he doesn’t want to have four case for everybody and have a lot of in fighting between encounters that are there.
I do not really huge part because.

[20:33] No matter how much for getting you do or how successful your business is if the employment office it’s funky and stressful it’s not gonna be worth it and it’s not gonna be as impactful as it could be.
I’m interested in that the in fighting comment you made her and if that’s a really good point because.
It just seems like often times in group practices when you clinician is brought on the other commissions can feel really threatened.
And maybe i’m wondering especially julie like when you brought a new counselors and how did you handle that like.
Do you just have a drama free place or to go to cochin people in that hundred how does that work you know we next have,
very little drama happening hard to make and what i’ve done is i,
don’t just hire people without having them do a group interview they come to our team meeting get a feel for is the group get the feel for them i actually really consider the feedback of the group,
and in that decision.
And then they pick up on things that i may not pick up on and so part of you my flossie is and hiring is i never hiring and i’m always hiring the right person.
So it’s more about finding like-minded people who have who wanna come and.
Who is look for people who are securely attached or i work to their issue so they are.

[22:04] Able to kinda show up as themselves and and real way and deal with things in the open and you not have some of that.
That is fighting we had hardly any and anyone who.
Has had their no longer there they laughter it just hasn’t worked out so those are some of my thoughts.
When i want to die so juliet can the part that is because of the culture you create an as a supervisor as an employer.
You are determining this culture in setting the standard and if you’re your staff do not care for they don’t feel heard they’re gonna kill defensive when other people come in because they barely get enough from you as it is.
Vs when they know that their fully supported and allows for them to be more open,
two and not having that scarcity mentality so i think that’s important to for clay like when evaluating it doesn’t have enough referrals coming in and.
And does he feel abandoned himself because that’s what he wants to set for that have.
Korean any kind of to her and stuff like that and the ads collisions yeah that’s great.
So what other action items us think that play could take so we can jump off a marine this comment there kelly julie do you have any thought aqua kelly yeah say it would be really great if you start exploring sandwich stuff.

[23:37] Add willy looking at who you can target because.
Walking taco is great and we also wanna know who.
Who benefits from yes a lot of people can but when you start speaking more clearly to some people and ss,
that’s the hope of waking that’s gonna help on your clinicians and still this condition spots as well as you add more staff.
I like that idea especially like in seen the light single in new york i mean yeah being single people that,
have money to spend but want to work on themselves that just seems like it could really blossom into something bigger and i think that also then value,
a lot of the media he’s already got and could be really cat,
sexy topic you know during different times of the year so you know valentine’s day that this is the natural times of people talking about relationships you.
Weddings in the summer time and so i think that knitting in and out what he likes is such a great idea.

[24:41] Yeah julie in i would.
I would say okay where’s your social media interaction how can i follow you how can i connect with you so building that social media and media connecting all of that and bring people back to your website.
For you contact at yesterday’s there’s not this kind of building a platform on social media or is there is there’s no mention of it on the website as i think that would be.
Something that i would look at especially if you wanna.
Build a clinic that’s private pay you wanna have multi connection i think that’s the really important,
so for clay which social medias you think would be worth spending some time on with walk and talk just based and has clientele and being in manhattan.

[25:35] Well i was a facebook just because people are on state everybody assumes that you have a facebook page and people use it as a search engine and i probably state water second it’s,
exit bit more fast quick information so that’s probably where i would suggest you start.
I wonder if instagram would work well if he were attracting can a younger audience and then i mean.
The visual nature of counseling in a regular session like there’s not a whole lot like use a picture my pillow here’s a picture of my like art work but,
if you are not during a session but after a session like walking in central park saw some ducks go doing something cool like that just seems like.
You really have a visual nature and then even name that location and i think i actually in twenty one that i wanna see him search do more with also.
It depends on the demographic that he’s going for as you go you know what is the age range and it is going for like.
Forty five over professional man you know i wouldn’t do instagram but yeah i was going for like twenty something is.
I’m new to the city then yeah for instagram so it really depends on on who specifically his line to target awesome.
Cool well this is just an example of what can happen if the most awesome conference in may of two thousand and sixteen right around the corner in la jolla california king of the holy.

[27:11] Seventy six about has all his little,
maranda misspelled something once and its never gonna die you beat me to that just engine possibly acting that we saw snow on the other day here in northern michigan,
i am not thinking about,
being in southern california though will they be so much next week we’re gonna be doing a neither one of these consulting round,
cables were gonna be listening and evaluating jonathan’s website with apex counseling so we will talk,
you all next week see.

[27:48] Well i’ve got a job back in here brightervision/com/joe they were awesome sponsors today we live forever so movies.

[27:59] Music.

[29:23] Refund judging just sitting here judging as i am really judging.