PoP 113 | Killing Atari and Becoming a Counselor an interview with Howard Scott Warshaw

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In this podcast session, I talk with Howard Scott Warshaw all about his time at Atari, how he is said to have created the worst video game of all time, and how he is now a counselor.


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PoP Culture Meet Howard Scott Warshaw

HSW_HS_TDC_01_CUArtist, technologist, creator and healer, Howard Scott Warshaw is first and foremost a communicator. Holding master’s degrees in Counseling Psychology and Computer Engineering, his career accomplishments include Video Game pioneer, MoMA artist, celebrated software developer, award winning film producer, author, educator and columnist. These days Howard enlists his eclectic skill set in the service of others as a psychotherapist in California’s Silicon Valley, where he specializes in the issues of hi-tech leaders and the super-intelligent. He loves exploring and sharing fresh perspectives as well as cultivating new talents and finding creative ways to apply them. Howard is a complex person who can be summed up in five words: Passion with a Balanced Perspective.


Resources Mentioned on the Podcast

Get the a PDF of the 16 Tips for 2016

The Inspired Intern: Getting licensed without losing your passion or your sanity!

Conquering College: The Most Fun You Can Have Learning the Things You Need to Know

Once Upon Atari

Howard Scott Warshaw’s Website

Meet Joe Sanok

consultant headshot JoeJoe Sanok, MA, LLP, LPC, NCC is one of the world’s leading private practice consultants. He is the owner of the Traverse City counseling practice, Mental Wellness Counseling. Joe helps counselors to start private practices and grow them.



Podcast Transcription

Pop 113 | Killing Atari And Becoming A Counselor An Interview With Howard Scott Warshaw

[0:00] Music.

[0:27] I’m go send back your host i hope you are just doing great today.
You know any of you have been following my social media and know that our family has just been doing so much sickness you know like.

[0:42] My girls were peeking in december and they got the flu type symptoms and their puke and again and through all of that.
My voice and my throat has been pretty darn good i have been successful in avoiding it.
But over this past week and well it hit my throat and i feel like having company can they show and the ginger tea and i took on the upswing but.
I’m not i’m not been a hundred percent today that’s for sure but you know what its okay cuz i’m with you you’re with me we’re happy family.
Oh my gosh the lady said that anyway is the price the precious podcast and you are here your taking time out of your,
fun-filled day to hangout with me joe’s and mac and some really amazing people that come on the show every week and not sending a solo show something so much,
i really appreciate it so exciting to have so many people be involved in this.

[1:40] So before i get too far into today’s show and want to think greater vision for being a sponsor they’ve been such a great sponsor,
and i’m actually cooking up a plan with perry for brighter vision and aaron from legendary lion and we are going to do something similar to a consultant round table.
That we had with kelly and randy and julie back in december of except it’s gonna be a website roundtable everything you need to know about starting launching growing a website,
and it’s gonna be a multi day in a row podcasts that can be coming up in the future here just got off a call a couple of hours ago with aaron and perry.
And we’re gonna be cooking up some awesome plans to anyway but greater vision is just amazing they make,
affordable websites that look just in,
they go up so quickly i had a consulting client a couple of weeks ago that started working with them anything cuz within like six or seven days the of the first draft ready for review,
and just great because i have a consulting can then go in there and give feedback and often times of video tape doing some screen recording to tell,
greater vision and consulting client things i think should change and then i’ll do as a private video in you tube so that they can take that feedback and run with it,
it’s just incredible the flow they have and in january you can sign up for thirty nine bucks a month for all of two thousand and sixteen.

[3:10] Thirty nine bucks a month,
to get quality amazing website for your practice head on over to brightervision.com/joe in the spreader vision back conversation joe and they will hook you up with a sweet website for thirty and box them up.
It’s on real now let me tell you about my guest,
so i was on netflix as i often am on my way and i were watching the movie atari game over it a documentary,
the worst tari game in history it said to be the atari game that killed atari is called the t,
there are tons of which is in and there’s always this kind urban legend atari head buried,
all of these games in a random of random place and the documentary follows some archeological excavated is,
and they were looking into whether advocate actually find ge t and so,
on this video game it’s like a legend in the video game world and says watching this documentary fascinated by it you know i enjoy you know a little bit of video games that really now save kids i’m just so busy,
a base reading them are you cart quite a bit that was that was my game on never really got into a whole lot of the newer games.

[4:26] But in this documentary howard scott warshaw who is the creator of the et game,
and is known as the silk kind of valley therapist hughes talk you how he is psycho therapy now,
and how is a former game designer that worked in atari in the very beginning of it and i was like what i can’t understand the podcast so,
i’ve been reaching at random people that i see and netflix movies and shows recently and he totally responded and it was game for coming on the show c program the games yards revenge raiders of the lost ark which are known to be,
two of the top but hard games ever and then et.
It’s a game that was said to have killed atari came out of his incredible the system is easy with howard scott warshaw has been doing he just goes into it was like,
to work at atari he talks about his transition in his life and to now being a therapist in silicon valley,
i am just what’s going well and what you know is growing for him so without any further ado i give the killer of atari and therapist howard scott warshaw.

[5:40] Howard scott warshaw welcome to practice the practice podcast.
Hey joe thanks for having me on really appreciate yeah well your story i was watching the netflix movie atari game over and,
in that in that movie you are talking about and your experiences working at atari and then you said you’re a counselor of all my gosh this guy has to be on the podcast,
so i just thought we maybe start with toast little bit of your story around can attack and atari and then we’ll talk about how that turned out because winfield.
What temperature is an interesting story i was i was in college as an economics major actually awarded computers like the way,
for a long time and it one point one of my professors that you know that have to have computers are gonna get anywhere this is in the mid to late seventies.
And so is it okay i took a computer course and i am so taking my son got this was like a revelation for me so i just finished off economics finished all my math major is that a theatre minor at the time.
And redirected my studies and went back and got a one year masters degree in computer engineering and then came silicone valley was going to school in new orleans.

[6:54] Angela and alice are working hewlett packard all my enthusiasm my passion and excitement for computing disappear as your.
What’s going on in his passions are very important thing for me i need passion to drive and i can’t find it i’m a little lost.
And so.

[7:15] I was tryna while i you packard computer the other engineers at your after and another guy work with a friend of mine said you know which one is something people go home and tell our stories.

[7:28] If i would just do things that people talk about and he said you know my wife where she works tuesday two things like that all the time there.
And so he’s really where’s that has a tourist so i went and i literally begged my way into it are initially that will hire.
I think they thought i was to street race for the environment but it turned out to be a really good fit.
For a car and thy did a couple of games there that were great note i did yours revenge which is still held to be one of the most when best games.

[8:03] Of all time raiders of the lost ark requesting spielberg and then the notorious eat cheese and i was chosen to do eat the.
But the trick doing it was that was normally games take six to eight months to create i was only given five weeks to do et.
And so i was asked to do it but i was also the only person who was willing to even attempt to do so i get,
dancing with the green thing first and then progressively,
as time went on it to stop after step after step into infamy and it has come to be known as the worst game of all time it is the game that is credited with single-handedly destroying,
the video game industry in the early eighties so and so.
I actually have newspaper articles in magazine articles stating that i was able to topple a billion dollar industry on my.
So that’s kind of our you’re so powerful we it’s pretty to think that i actually do half the truth is much more involved of course but you know stories need face,
and this was the facebook associated with the fall of the gaming industry is very interesting thing and you know this,
and possibly posed the question no so what is it like to have done the worst game of all time has it feel and.
You know what i say is that you know is eighty actually the worst game of all time i don’t really believe that’s true a lot of people there actually chief and plugs lot of people who.

[9:41] I don’t think it’s really the worst game of all time but i actually prefer when people do i identify as the working at yeah.
Because you know i also did yours revenge which is one of the best games of all time so as long as he is the worst game of all time that i have the greatest range of any game designer that’s awesome,
no in to graphic sixteen and some of those games are,
pretty terrible so it may be some compete with the tea but i,
i agree that you know that’s its good to have that range and for those maybe we’re atari players or were in the video games in the eighties just give us like kind of it overview of v chi ny that was they just named the worst game of all time,
oh wow what happens when you do a game that fans is you miss one thing that’s super important and that is the tuning.
And resolution but usually when you make a game what you do she spent like twenty five or thirty percent of your time actually just creating the basic game and then you stand you know sixty five seventy percent of the time.
Tuning allow operating going off you know on your finding new things to contribute and they didn’t have that tubing.
So that’s basically that came with the original concept that i had an unusually what you do as you start the original concept and if you’re doing a good job.
The game gets farther and farther from the original concept because it’s getting better this in didn’t get the chance to resolve it also didn’t get the chance for me to really get.
How frustrating some of the elements of the game were that became very problematic for a lot of players initially picking the game up.

[11:19] And i encourage them to put the game right back down sure why the five we timeline.

[11:25] The reason for the timeline was that they were in negotiations for the rights.
With silver and it took a long time because there was a very complicated process because they were trying to achieve a lot more than just getting the rest again there trying to by steven spielberg essentially.
Sf to.
It took awhile do that by the time they were done with that was late july and in order for the game to make a christmas market which was told that you must make christmas market or it’s not really worth doing the game,
damn that have to be done by september first so that left five weeks.

[11:59] And so i just don’t raiders lost our has a very interesting experience with steven spielberg and so he had requested me to do the game and.

[12:09] But i mean the thing is she is kind of a can do person and a very positive very i believe you can find a way find after almost anything.
And so,
what happened was once they got the raise the ceo of the company the time call my bosses boss the head of development to say hey we need the game you know the game we need for september first he said no can’t more,
you just can’t do it in five weeks to have.

[12:36] And so after that he still call me directly or whatever i was literally sitting in my office and got a call from the ceo the company.
If so can you et for september first dyson absolutely i can add he said,
okay great and i actually had thirty six hours designed game told me no thursday it was a tuesday afternoon to thursday morning be at the same as a rca model mobile we’re jet waiting for you to bring the ski over to present the game design it was.
It was quite an experience hot white and experience and i can’t see how would if i were in that situation part of me would regret having said yes then another part like me.
Interested people knowing game designers liked you become kind of famous by making that decision like this part of you regret it are you pretty happy with the decision i never regretted but the reason i mean that’s like the reason i went to a car.

[13:31] Was because i didn’t i wasn’t happy whatever you any idea the target games was nines.
But i went to re because i have lost a beauty in the passion that i have for programming and microprocessors and social security tactical stuff to move your business probably don’t even go but,
i’ll tell you if there was something about that activity at that time was super exciting it was like,
it was like the window in the future this was becoming technologies were resolved the yet and i want to be a part of that when i got a packard i lost that threat.
And the thing that is really compelling for me and computers the way i approach them it wasn’t there.
So i went to re because they were microprocessors the type of work they did and the environment that was were much more agreeable for me and where i was.
When i got to atari what i found was the first time in my life i was really able to integrate,
the tactical side of me and the artistic side does it always really explored both.
And so to be able to mix them and put them together in a very focused activity that was about entertaining people and bringing joy to people in the form.
Providing a game that you really.

[14:44] Be a fun experience i like providing that was very meaningful to me so going to charlie was a very big thing for me in my life and.
So when he came along where i was after having done two games are both very successful i really i was looking for them a big challenge,
i was actually really think you know i really wanna mountain dew claw i really want a huge shout so he came up it was perfect for me because of a dui game in five weeks that’s impossible no one can do it.

[15:18] I need to do i need to do this so for me it was great i’ve never regretted i have never regretted doing that came.
I like that is what people do you know you could go back and change a few things you know would you do it.
And it’s interesting thing to consider because.
I know now i could have gone back then litterally with another five or six hours i probably could have corrected some of the major flaws that were going on in the game.

[15:49] And if i would have done that i would go back and do that but would happen it would have gone from the game of real note.
To another okay game and we probably would not be talking about it right so what it is harriet what happened after,
after that game like a tire research to go down because they came or for those that don’t know the story what very,
sorry we go again because the business practices if the thing you have to understand about atari was a story was one of the first really successful entertainment technology conference.
Okay just no one knew what that was no one knew what a video game life cycle was.
And so the guy a friend of mine used to work at a car used to say you know the definition state of the art.
Definition of the arteries that when is broken nobody knows how to fix,
and that’s what happened to tori was the first life cycle of a product nowadays when people were putting out like the ps three or ps four there already designing the next machine they know that this machine have a certain life that’s gonna be over,
we need to be ready to continue the market once that product is losing action losing trash.
Okay understood that and what they had was an enormous cash out the people who have really put it together have left they sold the company you know they didn’t know what they had.
Right cuz the people who started torino in bushnell and those guys they’re very smart people and they created an amazing thing.

[17:21] But the truth is they sold the company for twenty two million that in about two years are going to be worth over three or four hundred million,
if they knew that what was going on they would not have sold it for twenty two million sure of that yet they didn’t know what they had and the and the people water when they bought the company and they installed classic.
Manager from a textile company in races are.
Who is respected classical manager but this was not a respected classical industry this was a while hybrid new media and that was super exciting to me to be,
one of the founders and one of the fighters of bran new media a new way of communicating a new way of acting.
That was that was huge to me what the people who were in charge of it they really didn’t know what was going on so what was taking off his.
Everybody was will it take credit running you know success has a thousand fathers but you know failures or right and so.
Everybody was very excited about it and willing to take credit for going up.
But then it became the fastest falling tub in american history because of the business practices that they had used climbing.
And when i did.
Just the people who are in charge really warrant responsible for the success of it they had no idea what to do when it wasn’t working.

[18:51] Yes,
it was kinda sad because you know things are falling as soon as they turn down it was only for five months in the tank that’s to put another one in the company started shrinking,
smaller and they got rid him of the soap are the company to someone else who just take it off their hands it was like an ugly quick tomorrow,
so like what year did you end up leaving atari.

[19:16] Eighty four eighty four okay sorry for comes around and they were do you go then like what’s your story leading into counseling,
atari was well that’s my story is not sure i have anything we have a longer podcast and i hope so yeah because of the thing is my thing.
What i really is exploring and creating new possibilities and new skills and new awareness and wrapping that and what i already have and see where that takes me.
So after tomorrow that and i just purchased a little time off for world history was an amazing had trip for someone just out of school in early to mid twenties to have that kinda ride it was while so it isn’t time to process that.

[19:59] And then got into real estate is the interesting to try that at the remember reason thought it might be good to get involved in real estate for a while so i actually got a license like a brokers license ultimately and i need,
click absolutely hated working in real estate was the opposite of what i need so.
I got a real estate mr get back in technology and now i was in june i was really doing games anymore i was a very formally trained engineer lot of the people in games for sell starter still on,
they weren’t formally trained engineers some more,
where i was working class engineering and do it all kinds of things were to compilers i work in networking worked on industrial robotics for a while that was very interesting but all along i was missing that creative.
Satisfaction so i started to work two jobs i did my day job because you are still addicted to eating at the bottom an eating disorder sense of like to be quicker pressure washer.
You know this from happening here yes yeah that just doesn’t always work instagram does jonas go but i started real estate hated that i got back to technology and then,
i was so dissatisfied with what i was doing i decided will i need to do something creative also started writing books,
there was a book that i really wanted to write get all the right call on three impale it’s actually available on,
as an e-book now and that’s the system that i used to graduate college in three years so for i saved your situation.

[21:32] What’s that word and so i want to read a book on that to be my first book because i want i thought that was important to help people do well in school.
So i’m writing another book so i have to practice writing a book when i read concrete college will be better but that’s the way i think.
Set oh i wrote another book i wrote a book about gambling card game called peggy.
And that was that was fun and i learned a lot doing that and then i said i wrote concrete college.
And that was fine and then i was gonna spend some time promoting that working on that then i got back into more technology stuff and then i thought you know.

[22:11] I’d like to do something else creative so friend of mine suggested hey there’s this television production program at a local university,
what the fuck is my enrolled in that i completed that program even got my final project aired on pbs and it started making documentaries get an award-winning documentary on alternative sexuality that used in several,
how large is in this area for human sexuality program like i did the reason i became a video producer was to do a piece that i.
Which is the actual story of what was like to be tomorrow because the atari experience was so profound and so life,
changing for everyone who was there i thought it would be amazing to record and i’ve never seen any media about party at our experience it was actually done by the people that are so,
they never really captured the experience i did it four part series called once upon a jar.

[23:12] And so i did that for a while and it was doing that i was doing some photography and is doing some other things and.
Okay that’s nice break.
Need to move forward still like to really integrate my creative and my analytical side cuz i’m a very right brain left brain balance.
Kind of person and light bulbs really git add one without the other is not that gramophone.
And so then i went back into video games while i started working video games by now video games it really change.
It used to be illegal authorship which was very exciting very fresh judgment is buying very compel not become this huge monolithic collaborative process which is still nice,
but it wasn’t the same juice that i was getting tare i miss that.
I still am for all the things i did and i had a lot of fun i really enjoyed a lot of them but i’d still been chasing the kind of job satisfaction that i had a store,
it was a very hard thing to recreate i never gave up hope that i would went but i didn’t know how i didn’t know where and so i can.
Bully for me to try to get java technology when i took a number of years are you so making when i try to get back in the technology was for.
Get back everybody technology things oh well the world is change will you be around the corner for a while so,
i don’t really know that jesus said i think also was aging out yeah.

[24:42] Well and how you wrote this great but the inspired intent that you sent to me and there’s a quote in here that i really like that like to kinda talk about,
in regards to your transition into counseling you said everyone has potential at any given moment,
each of us is realizing some percentage of that potential and is never one hundred percent weather at sixteen percent or ninety two percent you can always do better,
perfectionist sister best idea but i don’t recommend that was me talk a little bit about that potential and then that transition into the counseling world.
Well see that’s the thing is that i.
When i was seventeen years old a friend of mine and i we we’re gonna create our own personality theories therapy psychology these were things that were always.
Interesting because i always whatever i been doing i’m always really focus on human behavior to answer the question why did someone do what they did.
What’s up with that,
that always fascinated me in whatever endeavor of involved so when things were going well i was released i was really stocker friend of mine,
them to me and say no well what do you wanna do next well i just want to get back to check when i get a decent paying job and get my life back on track.
And they said no no no no not what you trying to do this and what do you wanna do you can do anything and i didn’t hesitate for my son want to be a ferris i didn’t see that is a realistic alternative for me at this point.
But i knew that’s what i do the civil war he moved into that why don’t you check that out and see,
what an i did it was funny was as i did i thought was possible is there to move in that direction suddenly things that were working for me that were no connection to working may.

[26:22] Sorry to open up people were pursuing me for tech jobs that were gonna finance my school and.
And it was just everything started about i call the career counselor to see in oh what kinda just might i pursue if i was gonna be moving in that direction.
And as a result of the interview with her counselor they hired me.
To do some work for them but they decide well i think i could use someone like you and it started doing stuff for them with another,
everything’s for the place now this legit because i have this idea that are going to be on thursday i didn’t really know what being a therapist what,
i like many therapists was on the person who my friends turn to for advice on the person who strangers come up to just want to tell their story to for some reason because they just do this is what they wanted it.
Yeah and i’ve always enjoyed listening to people and hearing their stories.
But i never really got with being a therapist once but as i worked through it as i move into it.

[27:20] I realize it all my god this is the job for me because with someone with as diverse and broad and eclectic background as i have.
Therapy is one of the few things that really requires you to bring everything you have to.
And so if you most job that i pursued or looked at though you summer my background or a piece of this are some of that i did the first job i’ve ever found that i really feel everything that i put together everything i have to bring.
Is it hot is right there in the room with me and comes in the black when i’m working with clients so,
i finally as i start to get deeper into it and see what was happening i it was an amazing i opening,
transformation for me to go from the person who thought it would be a good thing to realize only got this is my life’s work this is really where i’ve been having.
And i’m so moved by and my writing skills there’s a quota have their little poem about it and if i could i’d like to share that.

[28:28] With people because this a try to get you choked up talking because sometimes i do but this was really how i see being a therapist and.
It goes like this i’m filled with gratitude and every day it grows how could it not.
My appointment book is bouquet of intimate moments my colleagues are network of skilled empathize my cost of doing business is self-care personal development in the service of helping others i help myself.
Where else can i do so much value for giving so much value i learn i grow i love to inspire.
I am a psychotherapist wow so that’s.

[29:13] That’s a real expression of watch does work means to me there is something.
So incredibly compelling and gratify just it’s for me it’s the right place in the world where i can be doing.
Good work for others and be benefiting myself and learning and growing from that works this addresses all my needs to sort of like.

[29:38] All the skills you seen in your life all the education all the different pros and cons of jobs culminating being a therapist for you.
This is the one thing that i seem really know that you know my life is the pursuit of constantly acquiring new skills awareness is abilities and trying to find a new way to bring them all together and apply for,
sarah is the first place i’ve been to that actually lets me use everything,
everything that i have it all comes in to play it helps me and it helps my clients.

[30:13] So her tummy how do people find you to do counseling with you because i think that’s where a lot of our audience maybe struggles are wants to grow is where.
The art beginning stages of the private practice another fifty one percent the listening audience are you there the beginning stages the,
actors or their starting one right now so what advice would you have for those brand new people they’re starting private practices.
the first piece of ice and have people during a private practices don’t listen to what other people tell you pass practice because there’s so many misconceptions and somebody,
people come to because i do trains it in terms of going to private practice i train other therapists in various areas although,
tweet that the man of but because training and giving back to this industry to this profession is very important to me.
In terms of maintaining balance because i feel like it’s giving me so much,
so i can see you don’t listen to what other people tell you go and explore and find out for sure checked laws,
console with people who really know don’t just listen to hear say going into private practice is not a trivial thing to do,
what can be the most gratifying way to practice and it’s the only way to practice let you define your professional life,
as you want to do it so a lot of people don’t want to do that there’s a lot of fear the,
why people don’t go to private practice some of them if they are very legitimate private practices is a lot more work than in institutional practice.

[31:48] Restaurant you can focus on just your practicing and then writing the numbers but,
you have to do the marketing you have to do the sales you have to do promotions you have to run a business are gonna have a private practice and for a lot of people particularly therapists.
Yes that’s not with,
but it doesn’t have to be that bad but there are a lot of people don’t wanna do it who don’t do it because of fear not because of convenience you know if you really don’t wanna deal with those responsibilities wanna have a simple life,
it’s cool don’t do as usual practice but some people do as usual practitioner not satisfied but there’s a fear element and there are,
misconceptions that are keeping them for taking this step at a private practice and for those people i recommend,
we’re really going find out what’s really going on not only outside of you in terms of the actual rules are going on but inside of you what are the limitations what are the things that are blocking,
what are your resistance because it’s just it’s not real for your.
You may be missing an opportunity he tremendous professional satisfaction much more gratifying way,
then you may currently be experiencing that would be my best advice have that’s crazy don’t listen to people can i find that center inside of you one thing from the inspire intermittent connection but you just said is your okay right now.
Whatever is going on you are okay i’m not saying everything in your life is okay i’m just saying you’re fundamentally that fundamentally you are okay,
how is that inform how you run your practice and your training screws i love that idea that like you are not broken right now you’re okay.

[33:25] Things might be great you know if we just had a leak in our basement and how could you think that perfect my life but the things are okay jose inform your practice.

[33:34] I think that’s the fundamental practice you know when someone comes to see me i know that they are doing the best they can.
With where they are right now now sometimes we’re doing the best we can because were not aware of all of our return.
Mr whatever reason i can’t see i have blinders on i.
Not as clear about other things i have preconceptions about things are keeping me from honestly investigating for whatever reason,
i’m doing the best i can with where i’m at and i think that’s very important presets i really believe that’s where we all.
But sometimes when we feel we’re doing the best we can we think that’s the best possible.
And as well as my wife and i never lied i never except that from you in over a setting that.
But it will not accept that from a client and because you can always be different.

[34:32] Then what you are right now you always have the option and some differences are not going to be as good as are doing now but some differences may be better to do it right and i think it’s important to be over the possibility so,
what i bring you know my granny hell i put myself out there is in the silicone valley therapist because i’m trying to view be in the sense that i’m.
You don’t see a lot of super technical person people.
Come into being therapists and there’s a big chasm between therapist and engineers and that’s kind of one of my missions in life.
Is trying to close that gap a little because i think these are two population that could really help each other but because of their preconceptions of each other they’re kind of split.

[35:14] Am so what i do is i bring a lot of different perspective.
To the table so if some of the greatest person i can talk to them about creative process and what that means what blocking would be blocked me.
And what is not be able to do the thing that always giving me a sense of self and be,
when someone’s technical okay i can talk to them truly understand what it’s like to be as offered development cycle to have ridiculously unrealistic expectations and have that be a normal part of your job,
to have people write an evaluation for that says meets expectations that’s not good enough which is an odd thing so.
And it creates a lot of disappointment and,
failure and lost hopes and dreams does that everyday we hear about the success stories for every success story there are literally tens of thousands be.
what will you just said actually can i connect with a couple of questions i have from facebook that a few of our listeners have asked maybe can a mix together what you’re saying once person said,
i remember seeing a documentary your documentary about atari and i would mainly want to know what made him want to switch entire industry see kevin to address that but,
then john harrison asks what did you love about your designing career that you’ve been able to translate your counseling career what carried over so i think that.

[36:45] It sounds like some the listeners are wondering,
yo what from with very different career can applies now it sounds like bridging that silicon valley counseling gap is one of those things what else you see as,
i’m being kind of things that you’ve carried and from your career before being a counselor right so i can relate to a very wide range of people,
so one thing i carry it is whatever it is you’re doing whatever you’re professional endeavor of your personal circumstances with me and start talking about that but yeah three broderick personal,
experiences also i can probably connect with so but when i british people think it’s an odd job.
From being a program or an engineer manager to becoming a therapist and i really don’t think it is and here’s why because.
Programmers and therapist if you think about it we’re really all systems analysts and the way i look at is i just moved on to a much more sophisticated hardware than engineers are used to working,
hey i am in terms of working with people around disappointment and lost hopes and failure which is a lot of around here,
i can truly understand what happens from a mean i’ve understood it but the truth is who better to help you with something like that then someone who offered one of the greatest sales of our generation,
right i had a failure so big hollywood literally made a movie about.
Yeah absolutely and i think that’s one thing that.

[38:17] When you’ve gone through that and you survived and now you have a thriving career and your training other people.
To use those failures to be able to pepper and like i get it like i can empathize with you especially when you’re working people from silicon valley.
What point did you start to do more of the training site for in turns tell me about that transition.

[38:39] Well actually started fairly early on i think i was one of the first people in history the counseling center i was asked to give a presentation before i was license,
i just wish i had it doing training about working with alternative sexuality for a while because our are directed and produced a film on.
On the inner experience of people working will turn sexuality so that’s tricky and then engineers i give seminars on how to.
I work with engineers and try to clear up some of the misconceptions try to open peoples perspective on the question of that just one second the question how do i bring my design stuff because i think that’s a really great question i don’t know if.

[39:24] You know what i did the mixture of the creative in the political or the tactical therapy is exactly that because the.
There is no as we go to school and were trained asparagus and we learn technically how to apply certain theories and do certain interventions and there’s a lot of that to it.
What i think real in the room when you’re working with clients it’s an amazingly creative experience and your creativity and your where is in your presence in the moment to be able to just pick up and be,
present with someone in a way that is meaningful for them and makes a difference for that’s a tremendously creative.
Experience so my design training see when i look designer of the designers elaborate an idea i think of design much more as where do you find the inspiration,
and where do you find the source of the idea and how do you elaborated elaborate is much easier than inspiring and creative and getting the initials for.
And there’s so much and every moment in therapy is always an invitation to find that special.
That special connection that special meaning that special thing that’s gonna really do it the way.
We’re summarize you know like when i receive let’s have a conversation that changes your life because i think that’s what i can.

[40:44] Two people as a virus and it’s an exciting place to be yeah while.
So howard you can tell a little excited about being there yet no that’s incredible there so many directions we could go up so i guess.
I’m just thinking about when it comes to like the logistics of trains what tips you have for people that are thinking you know i f you can pretty good at,
whatever doesn’t either private practice that could be a specific skill set but they have no idea how to start,
training other people or even making money off of training say what are some of the very first steps that they can take well the first thing you need to do is do it for.
I think you know if you really want to make money from something start doing it for free so that you understand what it is you’re doing and you understand what it is that has value to others about.
Regular think you really understand those things and i’ve also failed enough times trying to host training throughout my life in different things and in the room where only one or two people showed up,
you know it doesn’t feel like success but it’s a big learning experience and you try to hold on that so.
You know i’m always in private practice as an intern and as soon as i got my intern number i before i even got my intern number i had already identified and set up a supervisor,
who i work with moving forward i want drama and the reason i want to be a private practice in inter was because when i got my license i want to have a practice i wanted you know,
it’s amazing mountain to climb getting a license as a therapist it’s just an unbelievable hall.

[42:22] That we go to most professions don’t have a firewall to enter the profession.

[42:27] Yeah and when i got there i didn’t want to have this letter of like well after having claim this not now i have to look up till it now i have to start building my practice going that direction i didn’t want to face that so,
i thought i need to go to practice now so that when i get there i’ll have a practice and i’m moving for which i did.
And so i started to train other people to do it because i to say what you can do this.

[42:53] It’s interesting to me how many people how many experienced service don’t understand the rule,
i had a book discussion forms of people who say you can’t be in private practice as mentor and they tell a list in terms you probably believe them and defer.
Getting their own careers going because somebody didn’t understand something just says something in a bar enter so.
People always know all the rules are not always clear about everything i learned this in college some of what i learned about how is enabled me to graduate early was i went and just read.
The school book on all the rules of what to requirements for degrees are and fam creative ways of moving through that maze that didn’t violate anything the people really and bought.
Enable me to accelerate my education save a lot of money.
Same thing here now you’re in california correct okay so for those that are cuz that’s one of our largest listening states so for,
in terms are seem to be in terms of california specifically what are a couple of things that are misconceptions there they california and turns should know about,
well the first thing you should know is that as an in terms you can participate in a private practice and you can quote you can i collect feeds okay a supervisor must like visa violations,
yeah there are relations really is licenses permission to collect money for what you do,
that’s what a license so before your license don’t collect money for what you do but you can create a situation where you’re seeing clients and you’re getting a percentage of the fee.

[44:28] For that session.
And the more plane to see the more money you make it becomes a very real private practice experience and you go out and you market and you you search for gloves and you find out what works and what doesn’t and,
one of the biggest things about private practice printers i think this is to me this is that one of the mainstays of what it gianni’s goes,
for people who works there is a private practice as well as interns is that is going to force you to face,
how do you feel about your expertise.
Okay it’s gonna force you to really own the fact that you’re there is when you’re working,
in addition to that there’s this whole built around you there’s insulation that’s going on there that when you’re alone private practice with your just in the room with someone,
as a private practitioner it’s just you there and it really makes you look at yourself in a very honest and very intense where.
Yeah and you got to be able to sit there and own the fact that your therapist and that you’re ready to work and help people.

[45:35] If you’re gonna be able to do that have them believe because i know believe it is hard to communicate in so much of what we do is non verbal.
In the room and if i’m not in the right place myself and not putting the right message out of it and i think private practice brings a confrontation.

[45:53] Inside the therapist on that level and i think it’s a great opportunity,
to get clear about because a lot of in terms under-estimate the capacity is it there you don’t want people overestimate your to be very careful about that you want to maintain you know stove confidences tobu of.

[46:14] Apprentice absolutely so i know people underestimate and i think that’s an expensive mistake to.
Great awesome of the howard scott warshaw if every counselor in the world were listening right now what would you want them to know.

[46:30] Weather know that i am here for you and i have a lot of information that is really served me well that i’m looking to share and help.
I want to know the inspire internet is i think it’s a book for therapists of all ages and all development stages as it’s not inspiration it’s a book that you can open up to any page is all about a very short pieces,
put together it’s about inspiration because inspiration is the essence everything that we do i think and.
And also say that you know you know my motto i just want to share that with people you know it took me a long time to get my life philosophy down to five words.
I’m still working on the word version but five words is passion with a balanced perspective.
And that’s really where am i think i have to be hugely passionate about what i do but not get pulled off-center and,
because i have a diverse background i really have a lot of chance to learn the value of alternate perspectives i know i can look at something as an engineer as a manager as an artist as a designer,
as a director and as a therapist and each one of those different ways you look at something gives you something fresh,
yo use everything that’s available to you and your for in you’re in your field of view.
Let your perspective flow and expand to encompass everything that’s there and you’ll find the best solutions to anything you need and you have the most offer your clients.

[48:05] That’s him that’s great and how it how people connect with you if they wanna connect with you more.

[48:11] If you just search for howard scott warshaw you will find plenty of hits in the,
i do not have a small weather footprint of course not leveling so that the show notes and web links your documentary and all books and talk to as well howard,
scott worshiping you so much for being cracks of rocks podcast joe’s really great to be here and be happy to hear it trying to like this new.

[48:38] Music.

[49:01] Thanks so much for coming in today i hope you have an amazing week hey one quick side know if you’re in grad school and you only infographic about how to make the most of grad school to launch private practice when you leave grad school,
headed over to practiceofthepractice.com/grad-school and you can get my full in.
Also if you’re watching website head over to brightervision.com/joe and you can get greater vision it every single month.
Thirty nine bucks you get all the web support the design like it’s just killer,
so again it’s thirty nine bucks a month if you sign up in january for all of two thousand sixteen you can receive over two hundred bucks this year alone so pretty darn sweet thanks perry for doing that and your whole team is just killer.
And thanks for letting me into yours and into your brain you guys rock.

[49:50] Music.

[50:00] It is designed record thirteen of information we’re getting something better cover tuesday with the understanding that holds the publisher what is surrounding legal clinic or other professional information.
Question should find one and think specially to the band sounds sexy and enter reuse you guys made good music.

[50:17] Music.