Rocky Lalvani is the Profit Answer Man | GP 98

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Image of Rocky Lalvani. On this therapist podcast, Rocky Lalvani talks about planning your finances.

When should you start talking to your kids about money? What are the first steps to implementing the Profit First system? Why is getting a dollar in revenue and spending a dollar the biggest financial fallacy?

In this podcast episode, Alison Pidgeon speaks with Rocky Lalvani about planning your finances. They discuss the different ways you can grow your revenue, and how to use the Profit First System.

Meet Rocky Lalvani

An image of Rocky Lalvani is captured. Rocky is the founder and owner of Profit First. He is featured on Grow a Group Practice, a therapist podcast.

Rocky Lalvani was shocked to learn most business owners don’t look at their financial reports! Can you believe that? It has to do with our mindsets around money and also fear and shame. When he realized how much of a problem this was he realized his purpose: to help business owners be profitable.

Rocky Lalvani serves as Chief Profitability Adviser for business owners. He teaches them how to ensure they get paid and make profit a priority! As a certified Profit First Professional, he implements Mike Michalowicz’s Profit First System. Rocky changes the accounting formula of Sales – Expenses = Profit to Sales – Profit = Expenses. This ensures Profit comes first! (PS. It’s not about money at all costs, people come before money!)

Visit the Profit First website and listen to Richer Soul and The Profit Answer Man podcasts.

Connect with Rocky on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

FREEBIE: Get the First Two Chapters of Profit by Mike Michalowicz

In This Podcast

  • Talk about money
  • The biggest money fallacy
  • Implementing the Profit First system

Talk about money

Introduce the topic of money into the household.

Taking calculated risks and investing are both topics that can be introduced to children, who are old enough, to help them better grasp the concept of money and asset value.

You have to give kids money or the opportunity to get money and let them fail. Let them try different things and have the money conversations with them about what happened, and how it worked out. A big part of that, especially for kids, is that they’re being constantly marketed to, and it’s [helping] them learn to turn off the “I want”. (Rocky Lalvani)

Help your children learn the potential value of money from a young age. Help them to learn that money is not something to chase, or live for, or sacrifice everything for.

Instead, teach them that you can healthily work with money for an increased quality of life and growth of asset value.

The biggest money fallacy

For most business owners, the first fallacy they have is when they get a dollar in revenue they think they can spend a dollar, and nothing is further from the truth. (Rocky Lalvani)

Business owners need to realize that every dollar they spend requires that much in sales to achieve genuine profit. Therefore, business owners will then think twice before spending that money as soon as they receive it.

Consider workload. If your goal is to double your income to increase your profit, then the assumption is that you will double your workload.

Instead, consider slightly increasing your rate, by 10%, which will already add new profits to your total, and cutting costs by 10%, to increase the expenditure. Ask yourself, are you spending appropriately?

I know a lot of business owners are afraid to increase prices, but the reality is you have to have decent margins, because if you don’t then you are going to struggle, and if you’re struggling then you are not going to serve your clients well. (Rocky Lalvani)

Implementing the Profit First system

Have a good relationship with your banker

Opening the bank accounts should be nothing more than a quick phone call and some time at the bank to sign papers.

Start small

  • Put 1% to profit
  • Put 1% to tax

By making small steps you are starting the compounding process and creating a habit, and that is the most important thing.

Adjust as appropriate

Once you have your systems in place and the habit is developing, you can adjust it accordingly as your company, goals, and desires grow.

Often with finances, you do not always need more resources, but you can be more resourceful.

Books mentioned in this episode:

Useful links mentioned in this episode:

Check out these additional resources:

Meet Alison Pidgeon, Group Practice Owner

An image of Alison Pidgeon is displayed. She is a successful group practice owner and offers private practice consultation for private practice owners to assist in how to grow a group practice. She is the host of Grow A Group Practice Podcast and one of the founders of Group Practice Boss.Alison Pidgeon, LPC is the owner of Move Forward Counseling, a group practice in Lancaster, PA and she runs a virtual assistant company, Move Forward Virtual Assistants.

Alison has been working with Practice of the Practice since 2016.  She has helped over 70 therapist entrepreneurs start and grow their businesses, through mastermind groups and individual consulting.

Transformation From A Private Practice To Group Practice

In addition, she is a private practice consultant for Practice of the Practice. Allison’s private practice ‘grew up.’ What started out as a solo private practice in early 2015 quickly grew into a group practice and has been expanding ever since.

Visit Alison’s website, listen to her podcast, or consult with Alison. Email Alison at

Thanks For Listening!

Feel free to leave a comment below or share this podcast on social media by clicking on one of the social media links below! Alternatively, leave a review on iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

You are listening to the Grow a Group Practice podcast. Whether you were thinking about starting a group practice or in the beginning stages, or want to learn how to scale up your already existing group practice, you are in the right place. I’m Alison Pidgeon, your host, a serial entrepreneur with four businesses, one of which is a large group practice that I started in 2015. Each week, I feature a guest or topic that is relevant to group practice owners. Let’s get started.

Hi, I’m Alison Pidgeon your host. I am so glad you decided to join us today. If you have been thinking about making some changes to your finances, especially with the beginning of the new year coming soon, this is a great episode to listen to. So a few years ago, when the book Profit First came out, Profit First was written by a well known business writer named Mike Michalowicz, it definitely made its way around the therapists’ community. There’s lots of practice owners who read it, and we’re very excited about it. Lots of folks implemented it. I have implemented it in my own practice and I have seen the advantages of it. So if it’s something you’ve been wondering about, or maybe you tried, but you just kind of couldn’t figure out how to do it yourself, the guest that we have today is a great person to help you.

So I interviewed Rocky Lalvani. He is the chief profitability officer for business owners. He teaches business owners how to make sure they get paid and make profit a priority. He is a certified Profit First professional. He implements Mike Michalowicz’s Profit First system. So basically what Profit First says is that we need to think about profit coming first. If you think about an accounting formula of sales minus profit equals what you have leftover is what you have to pay your expenses. That is really the Profit First concept versus what most business owners do, which is they take sales, subtract their expenses, and then whatever is left over is profit, which sometimes means there is none at all.

So when we kind of change that formula it ensures that profit comes first. Rocky wants to assure you that it’s not about money at all costs. People come before money, but obviously we can’t employ people, we can’t continue to operate our business if we have no profit or we don’t have cash to lean on in an emergency or things like that. So I really enjoyed talking with Rocky. He’s a very straightforward guy and I appreciate that about him. So I hope you enjoy this interview with Rocky Lalvani.
Hi, Rocky. Welcome to the podcasts
Thank you so much for having me Alison. Looking forward to our conversation today.
Yes, me too. I feel like there’s always so many questions from group practice owners about finances. So I’m excited to hear your perspective, but before we get started, can you introduce yourself and what you do to the audience?
So I am a Profit First professional and I work with small business owners and I help them with money mastery. So Profit First is a system of cash flow management, and it ensures that you get paid, that taxes are covered and that your business is profitable. It really helps business owners to have clarity around their money. I think the reason it’s such a big deal is most business owners are in business to do what they love. The accounting finance function is usually not at the top of that list and so they ignore it. If you ignore your money at some point, you’re probably going to struggle. So putting somebody in that seat or learning to implement a system so that it’s easier for you dramatically helps and in ensures your success.
Yes. I think a lot of us learned that the hard way, especially at the beginning of the pandemic. We had a situation where the first six weeks of the pandemic, like all of our new referrals dried up. People were just kind of frozen and realizing how quickly, if you would run out of money, if things kept going that way. Wow, it was a very short amount of time. It was like three months. My accountant was like, you’ll be out of money in three months.
So I remember at the beginning of the pandemic, a couple of people who had been using Profit First for a while to talk about the fact that, hey, we’ve got a very long cash runway. So the pandemic is not scaring us because we know that we can pivot through this. That’s one of the big benefits of Profit First that you do build up that vault account to help you through these things that happen in business. And life happens. It could be an insurance company not paying on time. It could be health issues. It could be things totally outside of our control.
So I know this is somewhat of a different career for you that you were doing something else in the first part of your career. So can you kind of tell us what you were doing before and how you came to start this new business?
So I was totally out of alignment. When I was in high school, I was teaching accountants how to go from paper ledgers to electronic spreadsheets. So I was playing around with busy calc, went to college, because that’s what we were supposed to do. Still playing around with spreadsheets, I was working in a bank, helping them with spreadsheets. In the back of my mind it was always okay, you’re going to graduate college and you’re going to help people with spreadsheets. Well, I graduated college and I’m like, how do I even tell people that I help them in spreadsheets? Is that even worthwhile? Will people pay me for this? In the meantime I got a job and it went well. I always tell people that the enemy of great is good. So I had a good job that paid me really well, gave me a lot of time freedom and this kind of thing just became a hobby on the side.

Everything I did in work, I did spreadsheets on. Our home life is run on spreadsheets, including the grocery store. So literally the spreadsheet for the grocery store follows the aisles. So when you fill it out, you just go to the grocery store, you follow the aisles, you pay attention to your paper. You’re not distracted. You’re out in 10 to 15 minutes, because life’s busy. Who wants to spend their time in there. At some point I already built my wealth. I did my stuff in corporate. I was successful and I’m like, what do I really want do with life? Throughout that time, the other thing is I’ve always been good with money and part of the reason why I was good with money is when I was a kid money was talked about at home. It wasn’t this taboo topic.

As I looked around the country, I’m like, hey, we’re such an abundant country. Why are people struggling with money? Why aren’t there more successful people? So I started to do a lot of research into that area, started to help people with financial coaching on the personal side and then I realized what Warren Buffet says. Warren Buffet basically says, nobody wants to get rich slowly. Everybody wants a package to get rich this weekend. That’s not what I do, but I can show you how to build wealth over time. Then I read the Profit First book because someone had introduced me to it and I’m like, what do you mean business owners aren’t looking at their finances. How do you not do the business of business?

And it dawned on me, they went into business to do what they loved and accounting was not that thing. So I was like, now I found a market fit. I know how to read PNLs. I know how to read the balance sheet. I know how to figure out what’s going on in your business, but I know how to talk to a business owner in a way that they understand what’s going on. Because too often, when you talk to your accountant, they’re using all these words and they’re telling you what happened. You’re a business owner going, that’s nice, but that was three months ago. What do I do tomorrow? Can I hire somebody? Is this new idea, does it make sense? Is it profitable? Those are the questions they have. So what I do is I read the tea leaves and say yes or no, and we help them figure out what’s going on and how to make better, wiser financial decisions within their company.
There were quite a few things there that I want to unpack for a second. So the one was, you said about how in our society, we don’t talk that much about money. I realized that we weren’t really doing that with our own kids. So we have three kids under 10. Because as you know, as soon as you tell kids what you paid for something, then they’re telling everybody. They’re telling their grandparents and they’re telling the kid down the street like, “Hey, guess how much we spent on blah, blah, blah.”

So then I realized that we needed to make more of an effort to teach our kids about just, especially with entrepreneurship, taking calculated risks and investing in real estate, something that’s going to be likely a good return on investment versus spending your money on a car, which is going to depreciate over time. So we’ve been trying to do a better job of that at our house, talking to our kids about that.
And one of the things I tell parents with kids is I can read all the books I want on golf and I can watch all the videos I want on golf but until I swing a golf club, I’m not going to learn to play the game. You have to give kids money or give them the opportunity to get money and let them fail. Let them try different things and then have the money conversations with them about what happened and how did that work out. A big part of that, especially for kids is they’re being constantly marketed to and it’s them learning to turn off the I wants and realizing that most of what they’re told is not really true. Those toys look great on TV, but in reality it’s nothing like that.
Or you’re going to be bored of it in a week anyway. Then the other thing you mentioned was about looking at your finances and making decisions based on kind of future goals rather than just looking backwards, which you’re exactly right. Accountants will say, “Hey, it’s the beginning of the month. Let’s look at the previous month. How did you do?” But unless you really have somebody who has that like CFO training or that those CFO skills to say oh, you can afford to hire this person or you can afford to expand and do X, Y, and Z, that was one thing I really struggled with, is really looking at the data to find the answer to those questions. So can you talk more about what you do along those lines, how you help people in that respect?
I think for most business owners, the first fallacy they have is when they get a dollar in revenue, they think they can spend a dollar and nothing is further from the truth. For most businesses, if you bring in a dollar in revenue, you might have a profit of say five to 10%, which means that every time you spend a dollar, you actually need $10 to $20 in sales. Until you realize that Delta and the fact that every dollar you spend requires that much in sales, then you start to think twice about whether or not I really need to spend that dollar because now it’s a question of, do I want to work that hard to get those sales? Then that of course creates more work and how much work do I want to actually do.

Along those same lines, what I tell business owners is think differently. So if you’re a business owner and let’s just say, you’re doing a hundred thousand dollars, well, I let’s say you’re doing a half a million dollars in revenue and you’re making a hundred thousand dollars a year. You say, well, I’d like to double my income. Well, so some people will say, go from a half a million to a million and you can double your income. That’s the standard answer, but that’s a lot of work to be able to do that. What if we just raised prices a little bit? If you take your prices up 10%, that’ll put $50,000 to your bottom line immediately, no extra work.

At the same time, if you could cut your costs by 10%, because we waste a lot of money that would put $50,000 to your bottom line. So you literally could double your bottom line without working any harder and have the results that you want to do. But that requires you to focus on those numbers, to know what they are and to analyze what’s going on in your business and saying, am I appropriately spending?

There’s a skill in America that we don’t usually use, which is negotiation. So cutting costs and mean if you call the cable company and say, “Hey, can you do anything for me on this bill?” You call your insurance agent, “Is there anything we can do to lower the bill? What are my options?” Start asking those questions to just challenge everything and increase your prices. I know a lot of business owners are afraid to increase prices, but the reality is you have to have decent margins because if you don’t, you are going to struggle. If you’re struggling, you’re not going to serve your clients well.
Yes, that’s such good advice. We raise our prices, I would say probably five to $10 a session every year. We just say this is due to the rising costs of running a business we’re raising our prices $10 and we never get any pushback about it.
No, it’s expected. And especially these days with infliction.
So I’m curious, how did you get interested in Profit First? I know you said somebody gave you the book and you read it, but what was it about it that you obviously got really fascinated with, that you decided to become a Profit First professional? Is that what they call you?
Yes. So there were two things. Number one was just the aha that business owners didn’t understand the business of business. So that opened my eyes up to opportunity. When I look at how Profit First works, that is the way I built my wealth. So from the time I was 21 years old, I separated my money into piles. It was all automated. So money all automatically went into different kinds of savings buckets and I just allowed it to compound over time.

So when I sat down and said, this is what I want to do. I looked at Profit First, there’s other CFO organizations out there, there’s other products that I could have done, and the reality is I could have just created my own. What I realized is if I wanted to create my own, I would spend a lot of time doing things that I didn’t love, which was creating the marketing material, maybe writing a book, maybe creating systems in processes for me to use. Then it would take a ton of marketing. I’m like, I just want to help business owners with their numbers. What is the quickest, fastest, easiest way to do that?

Since we were so much in alignment on the value side with Profit First, I felt that it was a perfect match. And Mike goes out and does all the branding work. They provided me with all the backend systems. They showed me how they do things and then I have a team of people so if I have a question, I can go to Profit First. There’s a few hundred of us Profit First professionals. We all help each other. So if I have a question and I’m unsure about something, I now have a go-to group group who can help me.

So it was that perfect fit of everything coming together. It doesn’t happen often in life where the universe bends like that to your favor. I think it happened twice. One was Profit First and the second thing is I had built my business model on virtual. So I was on Zoom before everyone knew what Zoom was. I was already set up to work that way. So when COVID hit nothing changed. It actually made it a lot easier for me to work with clients because everyone became familiar with and forced to work this way.
Yes, that’s great. So if somebody is just thinking about getting the Profit First system implemented, what are some things that you recommend that they do?
So the biggest stumbling block that occurs, and Mike says this all the time, people read the book, they come see him at an event and Mike’s like, did you start yet? They’re like, no, we couldn’t open the bank accounts. Everyone struggles with opening the bank accounts. The reality is is you should have a good relationship with your banker. It should be nothing more than a quick phone call and maybe an hour down at the bank signing papers, but opening the bank accounts is probably one of the hardest steps for people to do.

The second thing is just start small. So even if you just put 1% to profit, 1% to tax 1% here, you’re building a habit and that’s the most important thing. Start building this habit. Then over time you’re going to adjust and you’re going to figure out how to make this work for you. The book shows you exactly how to do it, how to figure out where you are today and kind of start with you are today and then work to where you could be based on what Mike says you’re the good targets in the book. But you start with where you’re at today. How is your experience getting started?
I fortunately had a accountant who was very familiar with Profit First. That’s one of the things that they are known for. So what was great is that she basically directed me on what to do. I had kind of a similar experience with opening the accounts, like I go to the bank and my, the manager of the bank is like, what? She’d never heard of Profit First. She’s like, “Wait, you want five accounts for all the same business?” I was like, “Yes.” Then I have another business and we did the same thing with the other business. I have a lot of bank accounts now, but she opened them all for me and then we got everything straightened out and we started out transferring things every week just because it took a while to get things kind of rolling and straightened out. But then once we did now we transfer every two weeks. So like the week that payroll runs, we move things around.
And how has it helped your business?
It’s been tremendous with just feeling confident with knowing that the money that’s in the profit account truly is profit and it’s also helped us to save money. So we’re saving right now for an expansion fund, which is great to see that account growing and knowing that it’ll be there when we need it when we want to open a new office. So I would say I am much more clear too about the money we do have to spend on expenses. There have been times when it’s like, well, the money’s not there. So we need to make a different choice, either need to delay it or, we were looking at getting some exterior improvements made on the office that I own and the counseling practice as a tenant and had to kind of pair down our original ideal list of things that we wanted to improve, just because it was more than we really had to spend in the expense account. So that’s where I think it’s been super helpful.
It really helps to constrain. I think what happens is, is most people are told sales minus expenses equals profit. So profit is a leftover. But when you do sales minus profit equals expenses, then you take your profit up. You constrain yourself and you say, yes, we can’t do that. We need to stay within our parameters. I think for many business owners, we need to have that constraint. It really helps us to stay focused. And like you said, what we say is, you don’t need more resources. You need to be more resourceful, so forcing you to figure out a way to get it done for less. When you actually start thinking about it and putting a little intention behind it, you’d be shocked at how things change. It’s just shifting the whole way you look at the situation and a whole way you think about your business.
Yes, exactly. So what have you seen in terms of outcomes for your clients when they start using the Profit First system?
So a couple of different outcomes. One of the biggest outcomes we see is that people no longer dread tax time. Everyone still hates tax time, but when tax time comes, they go, I got to pay taxes. Oh my God, it’s a $10,000 bill. Then they go, oh, look, there’s $11,000 in my tax account. I can stroke this check. So while they hate paying taxes, they feel confident at tax time that they’re not going to get blindsided. That’s one of the big things. The second one is like you talked about they are able to build cash reserves. And I’ve had people who’ve been in business for 30 plus years and they’re like, we’ve never had so much cash. This is incredible. So now they’re able to remove it from their business and start to do other things.

I know you do real estate. That’s one of the things we talk about, “Hey, remove money from your business, go put it to work somewhere else. Because the more streams of income you have, the better you’re going to be able to survive if things don’t go right in one particular area, which is always possible. So being able to pivot and being able to do that, that’s probably the two biggest things that I see with people. It gives them confidence and clarity so they sleep at night. Money is stressful for a lot of people and this kind of takes a lot of the stress away. You probably see that with your clients. What are clients biting over at home?
Money, chores. Are there any businesses where you wouldn’t recommend they use the Profit First system? Do you think Profit First works for every different type of business or only certain types of businesses?
I think it works for every kind of business. I’ve done Profit First in service businesses. I’ve done Profit First in retail businesses. We’ve done Profit First in online businesses. We’ve done Profit First in real estate, even for people who have rentals or flip companies or wholesalers. It’s not a question of whether Profit First will work. The question is how do we appropriately set it up for that type of business? So it’s customizing Profit First to work in a way that it makes sense for the type of business that you have.
So for example, in a service-based business, a large chunk of your budget is going to go towards what you’re paying your staff versus if you have a product-based business. You may have fewer staff, but you have to put more money into inventory or something like that.
Correct. So if we’re doing with a company, and a lot of my companies, especially the online ones have to order from China, well, right now you order from China, it might be six to nine months. You’ve got to have the cash available to buy stuff from China ahead of time. So creating a system to build up the cash, to be able to place those large inventory buys is very important and very helpful for them. So for them, that’s what we’re focused on. Every type of business has a different type of focus and you build, and you tweak the Profit First system to work for your business.
Nice. So you have a general idea of in this type of business, this is kind of how the percentages fall and a different type of business the percentages are a little different.
The percentages are different in every type of business. We also try and benchmark against the industry and then we constantly challenge. One of the things that does come up is I think for a lot of business owners, they get awareness of, “Hey, my business model’s never going to work. I need to do something different,” which could be to increase prices. It gives them the confidence to say, “Hey, I have to increase prices because otherwise I’m going to be broke all the time and I don’t want to be broke. So either I find a way to raise prices or I don’t do this.”
It kind of gives you a whole different view of your business and how to manage all of those things.
Correct. It takes a lot of the emotion out of the money. It also, because you’re putting money aside for your pay, you don’t feel bad when you remove it from the company. It’s like, “Hey, I deserve to be paid and oh, look, there’s money in my pay account. It’s been allocated to that so I can take it.” I think for the starting business owner, that’s always a struggle.
Yes. I’ve gotten that question a lot, “How do I know how much I can pay myself?” Because all of their money is in one account and it’s not clear, well, what here is really mine to take versus what needs to stay in here because I have expenses to pay and payroll and all of those things?
So that helps with clarity. And especially as the business grows, you automatically, because everything is percentage based, you automatically get a raise as your business grows. So that’s nice.
Yes. Makes it all worth it.
It does.
So what kind of things do you help people with outside of implementing Profit First? So if they want that kind of CFO perspective, I know we were talking before we started recording that you help small businesses who may not have a need or the resources to hire their own kind of full-time CFO. So you are able to kind of step in and help them with those pieces. So what do you do besides help them with Profit First?
So a big thing that we do is first of all, we start with targets. So let’s look at the next year, two years, three years, what are your expectations for sales and growth and let’s set a target. We set monthly targets so that we have something to measure against. When you have a target, it’s a lot easier to say, “Hey, how am I doing?” You get the thumbs up, thumbs down every month on how you’re doing towards where you’d like to go. We also look at operational targets. So how much do we need to spend and what’s appropriate in spending. As we grow our business, okay, what are we going to need to spend for employees? What does that look like going forward? The other thing we’ll sit down and we’ll look at pricing.

So many times in your world, you look at the different service offerings you have, and then what we do, is we tie the costs in time to those service offerings. You may realize depending on how you’re charging or how you’re getting paid, that certain things that you’re offering clients are unprofitable whereas other things that you’re offering clients are super profitable. So if you know that certain things that you offer are super profitable and you are aware of it, you can change the way you talk to clients. You start to offer more of the super profitable stuff and you start to stop offering things that aren’t profitable.

You say, well, we don’t offer that service because if you’re working really hard and you’re not getting anything for it, why are you doing it? So those are the types of things we look at. We also help them focus to make sure that their money is coming in, that their accounts receivables are good, putting in processes to make sure they’re getting paid, that they’re appropriately paying others. A big part of it is accountability and focus. For most businesses if they’d spend a couple hours a month looking at their numbers, they’d make wiser decisions.

So I create the space to do that and I remove all the friction. When the business owner is like, I don’t understand, I’m like, okay, let me help you to understand what’s going on. Let me show you what’s going on. Then as you’re growing, like I had a business owner say, we’d like to open another location, I said, okay, let’s run the numbers. They ran the numbers and they go, it doesn’t make sense to open that location there because it’s not going to really make us any money. We’re going to do a whole lot of effort with nothing in return. So it’s knowing that upfront, not just winging it all the time, but doing it with intention and purpose.
Yes, there’s a lot of business owners, unfortunately, who are winging it.
Most of them. That’s the truth of it. That was my big aha. What do you mean everybody’s winging it?
Right. Because we didn’t go to business school. We went to school to be therapists or whatever we became, and then we decided to open a business for whatever reason, but it doesn’t mean we have good education in those areas, which is why we need people like you to help us. So it’s been great talking with you about Profit First. I know that it’s definitely very popular among the private practice owner group. There’s always lots of talk about how do I get Profit First started? So if folks want to reach out to you, if they want to work with you, what’s the best way for them to connect?
So my website is From there you can find the podcast, which is Profit Answer Man. On the podcast, I do a lot of teaching, so showing you how you can do this yourself. A lot of people want to do it themselves. Maybe they’re not in a position to be able to afford help. They’re just getting started. We teach all of that. If you’d like two free chapters of Mike’s book, Profit First, there’s a link on the website. You can get two free chapters and see if it’s of interest to you before you go out and buy the book. That’s probably the best way to connect.
Okay, awesome. Well, thank you so much, Rocky. It’s been great talking with you.
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a blast.
Thanks so much for listening. I hope you are having a great December and thinking about what you want to be accomplishing next year, which is only a few short weeks away. If you are realizing that you need some support as a group practice owner and you want a community of like-minded folks to talk to, definitely check out our program Group Practice Boss. It’s a me community that Whitney Owens and I run. We talk about all the things group practice-related. You can join at any time and you can just head on over to the website, which is It will give you more details and there’s a link there to sign up.

So thanks so much again, for listening, and I will talk to you all next time.

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This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guests are providing legal, mental health, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.