Smart, not Spoiled: The Seven Skills to Master in Childhood with Chad Willardson | PoP 653

A photo of Chad Willardson is captured. Chad Willardson is the President and Founder of Pacific Capital, a financial management business based in Corona. Chad Willardson is featured on Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

How comfortable are you talking about money with your children? Have you heard of opportunities spreadsheets? Why is generosity an important principle to teach your children?

In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Chad Willardson about how to equip your children with strong financial principles.

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Meet Chad Willardson

A photo of Chad Willardson is captured. He is a financial advisor and founder at Pacific Capital. Chad is featured on Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast. Chad Willardson is the President and Founder of Pacific Capital, a financial management business based in Corona. He is a certified member of the National Ethics Association and serves clients as a Certified Financial Fiduciary®, entrusted to manage money for families and businesses. Before founding Pacific Capital, he spent nine years at Merrill Lynch where he ranked in the top 2% of over sixteen thousand financial advisors nationally.

Mr. Willardson has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, U.S. News & World Report, Investment News, Yahoo Finance, Inc., NASDAQ, NBC News, Entrepreneur Magazine, and the California Business Journal. “He is also the best-selling author of two personal finance books, “Stress-Free Money” and “Smart, Not Spoiled.”

Visit the Pacific Capital website and connect with them on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Youtube, and LinkedIn.

Connect with Chad on Instagram and LinkedIn.

In This Podcast

  • The Seven Skills to Master in Childhood
  • “Learn to earn”
  • “Invest early and often”
  • “Talking taxes”
  • “Giving generously”
  • Chad’s advice to private practitioners

The Seven Skills to Master in Childhood

1 – Invest early and often

2 – Borrow wisely

3 – Know your cashflow

4 – Talking taxes

5 – Learn to earn

6 – Protect who and what you care about

7 – Give generously

“Learn to earn”

Create a spreadsheet of opportunities that is age-based, depending on how old your child is.

The spreadsheet of opportunity has various household tasks, and even neighborhood tasks, that have points associated with them. The kids get to decide how much they want to do, and how many points they want to earn, and they can redeem the points for money. (Chad Willardson)

Children can redeem these accumulated points for:

  • money
  • extracurricular activities
  • rewards

This opportunity spreadsheet puts the responsibility on them. They have a chance to decide how much effort they want to put in.

If the children want to earn money or receive a new gadget, they understand that they have to put in the work to earn that reward, and then they can appreciate that their hard work paid off.

We have some blank spaces on the spreadsheet that say, “see a need, fill a need”. [The kids] can come to mom and dad and say, “hey, I see that we might need this kind of a project done. I think it’s going to take me three hours, and I think the value should be $25”. We’ll negotiate back and forth and I think that’s a great business experience for them. (Chad Willardson)

This mindset encourages them to look for solutions instead of waiting to be told what to do.

“Invest early and often”

Teach children the value of investing at a young age because it will pay off so well for them as they get older. Chad recommends that any child older than 10 years should open a Roth IRA account.

Entrepreneurs can “hire” their kids into their company, put them on their payroll, and have them work towards a 401K.

This gives great tax benefits for the entrepreneur and great lessons for the child about working, earning, and investment.

Investing is just delayed consumption. Teaching these kids that they don’t have to consume everything they earn instantly and that they’ll have much bigger benefits. (Chad Willardson)

Investment teaches patience, delayed gratification, and how to work with a growth mindset.

“Talking taxes”

You pay taxes on any transaction that you make, so in some ways, it is your biggest expense. Giving your child a basic understanding of what tax is can be beneficial to them.

When they are old enough, sit down and go over what tax is on a paystub, and do your tax returns with them so that they can begin to familiarize themselves with the concepts.

“Giving generously”

Children are growing up in a comparison world nowadays due to social media and consumption.

Teach kids from a young age that you share, give, and help those around you, and that the world has a base in kindness and giving, not just in gain.

Get kids involved in charitable work in the community. When traveling, take the children with you for a day or a half-day of charitable work in the new country that you are in.

Instill the value of giving and the abundance mindset, your children will have a healthy relationship with money that will last them forever.

Chad’s advice to private practitioners

Money can be stressful if you are not prepared and not intentional. Be clear-minded with what you want so that you can make a positive impact.

Books mentioned in this episode:

Useful Links mentioned in this episode:

Check out these additional resources:

Meet Joe Sanok

A photo of Joe Sanok is displayed. Joe, private practice consultant, offers helpful advice for group practice owners to grow their private practice. His therapist podcast, Practice of the Practice, offers this advice.

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.

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Podcast Transcription

[JOE SANOK] This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 653.

I’m Joe Sanok, your host, and welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast. I’m so glad you are here. As I am a dad with a seven year old and 10 year old two awesome girls. One story I told in Thursday is the New Friday was all about how, when Lucia my 10 year old, when she wanted to do a lemonade stand, we walked through her options. She could do that kind of crappy powdered lemonade, or she could do hand squeezed lemonade with simple syrup and make it all fancy. We had basal leaves and frozen strawberries, and she said, “I’d rather charge two bucks of glass rather than 25 cents of glass.”

Throughout being a parent, for me, it’s been so important to not push kind of entitlement and especially with how many parents think about like just taking care of their kids and doing everything for them. To me I want them to experience the world. So that’s why I’m so excited about Chad Willardson who’s hanging out with us today, who’s been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Entrepreneur, Inc, California Business Journal, NBC News. I mean, this guy has been everywhere and his new book, I am so excited for us to talk more about, because the idea of kids being smart and not spoiled, I mean, that’s exactly what I want for my kids. So basically this is a selfish interview. It’s for me to really learn these principles directly from the writer himself. So Chad, welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast.
[CHAD WILLARDSON] Hey, thank you for having me. This is a topic that’s on a lot of people’s minds, so you’re not alone. I’m excited.
[JOE] So I know that you do a lot of financial things with people, you teach money, mindset, money, coaching, all sorts of other things. How did you make that switch to say now I think we should start teaching our kids some of these things, or was it always kind of embedded in the work you were doing?
[CHAD] It’s always been on my mind. This is all I’ve ever done, is wealth management for entrepreneurs and as a father of five kids. So my wife and I, we were married in 2001 in San Diego and we’ve got five kids right now. Our oldest is about to turn 17 and our youngest is six. So we’ve got a wide span. But my thought was, what am I, the financial guru, the financial expert, if you will, what am I teaching my own kids about money that would give them great advantages that I didn’t have, because I wasn’t really taught this stuff as a kid. Then more I’ve just dealt with families and people over time, I just realized this is on everyone’s mind. Kids these days, a lot of them are entitled and they expect a lot more and they don’t understand or appreciate the value of a dollar but what I say in the book is it’s not their fault. They haven’t been taught.
[JOE] Yes. It’s like, I remember my parents would say, “Oh Joe, have you heard this band,” when I was a kid and I’m like, “No.” They’re like, “How have you not heard this band?” I’m like, “You’re my parents. You never told me about this band. If there’s these legendary bands, like that’s your job to teach me? How would I know any different?” So maybe before we dive into kind of the seven things that kids need to learn before they leave childhood I’d love to hear how do most people approach teaching their kids and why does that lead to kind of entitlement and not really the best way of raising our kids.
[CHAD] Well, interesting study I quote on the book is that parents are more comfortable talking about drugs and sex than money with their kids. So the challenge isn’t what they’re teaching them. It’s that money isn’t even a family conversation. It’s kind of a taboo topic. People say it’s oh, it’s confidential so I don’t want to talk about how much I make. So they just don’t talk about it at all. What happens is kids observe everything that’s happening. Like they see you push a button on Amazon and a box shows up tomorrow. They see you swipe a card at a young age, they see you swipe a card at a grocery store and you walk out with all this stuff.

So if you’re not intentional, kids will pick up just what they’re observing. A lot of parents, they argue about money is stressful. So kids think, well, money must be a bad thing because it invites controversy, it invites contention. So I think we really need to be intentional about how we talk about money and how we behave with money because our kids are picking up a lot more than we think they are.
[JOE] Yes. I love that point that they see all that stuff, but they don’t necessarily make the connection of where that money came from or the value of it or any of that. So take us through the kind of seven things that kids should learn before they leave childhood. I’m sure I’ll have questions kind of within each one.
[CHAD] I would say, I’ll go back to a story. We were at Disneyland. I grew up out here in Southern California, so it’s close. We could go there a lot. It’s expensive. It’s gotten way more expensive. We were leading Disneyland after a long day with our kids and spending tons of money. I mean, eating for seven there for lunch and dinner is pretty expensive. So we’re walking out of the park, we’re going to go to the tram to go back to the parking lot and the Mickey Mouse balloon guy is there and he’s got these neon balloons. It’s like 15 to $18 per balloon and my youngest son says, “Hey dad, can we all get some Mickey mouse balloons on the way out?” I was like, “We’ve already kind of spent all the money that we brought today on Disneyland. So maybe we’ll get a balloon next time.”

He’s like, “Just go to that machine over there that has all the money and stick the card in dad.” That was his simple-minded solution. It was just like such a spark to me to say, we got to teach kids where that money comes from and what it’s all about because in their mind there’s a money machine everywhere you go and you just stick your little card in and you can get whatever you want, you know what I mean?
[JOE] Yes. And I think that it’s one of those things where when you have those moments, you realize like how can I frame this differently so that they understand it without it being, I mean, in my family, I think money was oftentimes like over talked about, or it felt like it was always the scarcity, which wasn’t out of, like my dad’s a psychologist, my mom’s a nurse practitioner. So they had the money and they also really valued it and they tried to pass that on to us but there’s also like there as well.
[CHAD] Absolutely. Absolutely. And every household is different, but what I’ve found is people will take whatever that money blueprint is from their early, early years in childhood and it will stay with them. Even people who have $10, $20 million and they’re making millions a year, they, I had a client that was like that. The wife just wanted to replace their 40 year old carpet and they literally had millions and millions and millions in the bank with more cash flow income than they would ever, ever need. He was so stubborn about it, like, “I’m not changing the carpet. We don’t need new carpet. Our carpet works fine.” She’s like, “It’s only going to be $5,000. Can we just please get some new carpet after 40 years?” But that blueprint has stuck with him since he was a kid. So I think it’s just an important thing to do when you’ve got seven and 10 year old daughters is to think about what values around money do I want my kids to have and what foundational principles can they learn? So that’s really what I tried to put together with these seven topics.
[JOE] Awesome.
[CHAD] If you want, I’ll just kind of tease the topics and then maybe we can dive into one or two of them and see what’s —
[JOE] Yes, that’s great.
[CHAD] Okay. So number one is invest early and often. Number two is borrow wisely. Number three is know your cash flow. Number four is talking taxes. Number five is learn to earn. Number six, protect who and what you care about and the final chapter, number seven is give generously. So any of those particularly stand out that you want to dive into?
[JOE] Yes, let’s start with learn to earn. That one, I’ll take learn to earn for 200.
[CHAD] Yes, learn to earn, so my wife and I have never paid an allowance. We’ve never given our kids money for breathing or existing as I like to say. I just feel like it would perpetuate that entitlement mentality. So what we did instead is we created a spreadsheet of opportunity. It’s somewhat age based, because we’ve got older teenagers and little kids, but the spreadsheet of opportunity has various household tasks and even neighborhood tasks that have points associated with them. The kids get to decide how much they want to do, how many points they want to earn and they can redeem their points for money, or they can often redeem the points for privileges or like very big extracurricular events or activities. But we put it on them because they have a chance then to decide how much effort they want to put in.

So when you talk about that lemonade stand, we have, teaching entrepreneurship is certainly part of this learn to earn chapter. And I’ve got many stories and examples in there about just teaching them to find and initiate opportunities. So we have some blank spaces on the spreadsheet that says, see a need, fill a need. They can come to mom and dad and say, “Hey, I see that we might need this kind of a project done. I think it’s going to take me three hours and I think the value should be $25.” We’ll kind of negotiate back and forth. And I think that’s a great business experience for them to look around and say, what needs to happen? How long is it going to take me? What am I going to have to do and how much should it be worth rather than, “Hey mom and dad, how much, how can I earn $25?” It’s just a different mindset. What do you think about that?
[JOE] I like that. I feel like I have a question. How do you make sure that they aren’t just motivated externally? Like, do you do anything to kind of bring it back internally? Because I know sometimes some of the critiques of kind of point systems or token economies is, well, they’re only doing it for those points or for that money instead of also contributing to the family. Like, “Hey, we just need you to unload the dishwasher.” Do they ever get to the point where like, “I’m not going to unload the dishwasher unless you give me 20 points.” How do you, because I feel like there’d be a push and puller.
[CHAD] Totally, totally. I should clarify. They have basic things that they have to do that basically is their rent payments. So they’re not going to get credit for like brushing their teeth or emptying the dishwasher. These are bigger projects. These are like mop the garage, help my sibling with homework, wipe down all the windows, take the trash cans in for a neighbor, write a thank you card, watch a YouTube educational video or a Ted talk. These are things that are above and beyond just the basic daily living chores that you would expect your kids to do.
[JOE] Okay. So that makes more sense because we don’t do like an allowance per se, but it’s always tied back to kind of that rent payment, that being here, here’s the things. Before I give them kind of their weekly money it’s like, “What did you do that you feel like you’ve earned this money for being a part of this family?” So it’s similar, but it’s not as maybe structured as with the points and all of that. I love that idea of tying in extra learning things into it.
[CHAD] Yes.
[JOE] Do you ever feel like then, because I know that, like I do art. I love painting, but as soon as I, like, I had an art show a number of years ago and it felt like the fun of art was taken out of it when I knew I had a show to do, because it was like, oh, I want to sell paintings. I want to do things. Do you ever feel like the love of learning gets taken out of it because they’re earning points or do you feel like there’s a point where they’re like, man, I’m so excited I’m getting paid to watch these Ted talks?
[CHAD] I’ll you what, I think what I’m trying to instill in the kids is the habit of being hungry and to tie in the fact that effort correlates to outcome. And I would say with that reading, I think at first it might feel like a chore. Like I’m doing this only because I want to earn more money, but what happens is they actually, once they get into it, they’re interested and they’re invested. My 14 year old son Pierce recently, he earned some money and he’d been reading and watching some stuff because there’s higher points for the longer and the harder the task. He said, “Dad, I’m really interested in how people make money and start businesses through social media and through YouTube.”

He is like, “I’d like to buy two books and they’re about like crushing it on YouTube.” And literally at 10:30 at night, the other night I saw his light on and I knocked on the door and I’m like, “Pierce, what are you still doing awake?” There he was like 70 pages deep in that YouTube business entrepreneurship book. That never happens if I hadn’t started incentivizing him to read books that were maybe not just like the fun fiction stuff that he would read on his own anyways, you know what I mean? I mean, to me it just instills that interest and then hopefully the habit carries them and keeps them creative and keeps them engaged.
[JOE] For the one that’s about invest early and often, tell me about that one.
[CHAD] Sure, invest really and often I think this is critical for young people to learn. I’ll never forget, I had a teacher, a substitute teacher that randomly did a little investment compound interest lesson for us. I was 16 years old. I was a junior in high school and he said, “If you invest $100 a month for the next 50 years at age 65 and you grew it at 10%, a year average stock market growth, you’d have almost 1.8 million.” I did the math and I was like, wait a second, $100 a month, 50 years, that’s $60,000. How could I only invest $60,000 and have it grow to 1.8 million? It was through the magic of compound interest and compound growth.

When I’ve shown my own kids and I’ve spoken at schools before and we’ve gone over what the power of compound growth is, these kids get excited. They want to invest. We talk about, I give examples of some stocks that kids use, they use Disney, they use Amazon, they use Apple, they use Google, they use Netflix, they use all these companies, they can be part owners. If we teach these kids to invest early and often and make mistakes, make small mistakes with small amounts of money every kid who’s earning any money over 10 years old, I think should have a Roth IRA. Entrepreneurs can hire their kids and put them on payroll and have them start contributing to a 401k or a Roth 401k. They can have tax benefits for the entrepreneur and they can have great lessons and experiences for the kids to learn and just get in that habit of investing early and often.
[JOE] Yes, we’ve had that conversation because with the Leave to Find Podcast, I was able to pay my daughters to be part of that and to have them on payroll and just to be able to say, “Let’s look at this money and what that’s going to be when you’re 65 if you don’t touch it.” Because I don’t want them to turn 18 and then be like, “I’ve got all this money I’ve got 50 grand. It’s grown for the last 10 years,” and you’re like, “No, just let it sit.” It was funny, there was a little fight, I wouldn’t say fight disagreement between my seven year old and 10 year old because we looked at what the seven year old would have at age 65 versus the 10 year old. Just the difference of that three years was almost a million dollars just by that time where it was just crazy how just that extra three years of, I think it was like eight or $900,000 difference. And my 10 year old’s like, “Why is she going to have more?” I’m like, “Well, because we didn’t do this early like we are for her.”
[CHAD] Right. The fact that they can understand that though, I mean, they’re going to be set up for a mindset of growth. investing is just delayed consumption, so teaching these kids that they don’t have to consume everything they earn instantly and they’ll have much bigger benefits. I talk about the marshmallow experiment and just putting that marshmallow out and saying, if you wait a little bit, you’re going to have two. If you’re investing and you wait a long time, you’re going to have five or 10 or 20 marshmallows. So the patience, the delayed gratification, these are principles and lessons that go far beyond money and finance for these young people for sure.
[JOE] Yes. Now, you had said one of the things was taxes. How do you talk about taxes to your kids?
[CHAD] Yes, that’s not an exciting topic on the surface, but I think it’s important that kids know that taxes is actually your number one expense. It’s not rent, it’s not mortgage, it’s not anything else. Because you pay taxes on pretty much every transaction that you do, you pay taxes on what you earn, what you buy, what you spend, when you sell investments. So I talk about just giving a basic understanding of taxes, going over a tax form. When kids are, let’s say they get their first, part-time a job at a movie theater, a restaurant, they’re going to have a tax form potentially.

So we just kind of send kids off at age 18 and expect them to figure it out but why not go over a pay stub and why not go over a 1040 tax return? Why not teach them about the different types of taxes? I think it’s extremely important. One easy thing that you can do as a dad or a mom is, and my kids laugh every time because now they know, but when we’re out to eat at a restaurant whatever they order, as long as it’s something I’m somewhat interested in, I’m going to take the first couple bites and I’m going to say, you’re just paying your taxes. So they know they don’t get the whole pie of anything that they earn because there’s always taxes. They kind of laugh.
[JOE] Call yourself uncle Sam?
[CHAD] Yes, that’s right. You’re giving a little bit to uncle Sam. I would say also when I’m looking at teaching the kids about taxes, you can teach them the importance of planning ahead and preparation. If they’re going to be an entrepreneur and they’re going to have their own little business in that lemonade stand example, at some point they’re making enough money, they’re going to have to pay taxes. So let’s budget accordingly. Like I had an NBA player client who was 19 years old and his first contract was a seven figure a year contract. He had in his mind that he was actually going to get almost all of that. He didn’t realize that over 50% would be lost to taxes and he’d be taxed in every state that he plays basketball in.

So we have 23 different tax returns for different states. It’s a lot more complex than like here’s your $4 million a year rookie contract and there’s $4 million in your bank account. It doesn’t really work like that. So the sooner we can teach them what taxes are and what they go for and what the purpose is and also how to plan for them, I think the better off they’ll be.
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[JOE SANOK] Now the last thing that you had said there of the seven was giving generously. Talk about that, why is that important to you, how do you teach that to your kids?
[CHAD] To me, it’s critical. These kids grow up in a comparison world where they’re looking at social media and everything is amazing and the highlights of what everyone’s doing. You can really get caught up in the materialism and the consumption overload, if you’re not careful. So giving generously to me, it’s something I’ve always been taught. My parents taught me that where much is given, much is expected and required. So we teach our kids from a very young age, it’s like the three jar principle, you’ve got one jar that’s spending, one jar that’s saving and investing and one jar that’s giving. Having a percentage allocation to each of those three jars is important for kids, just like it’s important for adults.

Some of the ways we’ve teach our children, we’ve taught our children that is, is we get them very involved in charitable work in the community. Whenever we travel, we like travel a lot, we always set aside a half day, sometimes a day of actual service. So a story I share in the book is when we were in the Caribbean and we made a huge effort to go to this big orphanage and our taxi driver was very confused. Why would this American family and the Caribbean waste an entire day at this orphanage? But what’s funny is that was like day two of the trip.

On the very last day of the trip. We asked our kids, what do you want to do for your last day? Was it the water slides and the jet skis? Or what is it? They said, “We want to go back to the orphanage and hang out with our friends.” It just like brought up full circle, like if we instill values of giving in that abundance mindset, then these kids are going to have a healthy relationship with money that will last them forever.
[JOE] Oh, that’s so incredible. What are some situations maybe you’ve seen where maybe you noticed your kids starting to slip into some of that entitlement and how did you address that whether it’s with their friends or in reactions to you? Because kids go in and out of buying into what their parents teach them. When has there been some less buying in and how did you address that?
[CHAD] You know, in sixth grade, my oldest, it seemed like all of her friends were getting iPhones. iPhones are 500, $1000 dollars and they come with a lot of baggage. I simply said to her, “Number one you can’t afford an iPhone yet and number two, we don’t think that sixth grade is an appropriate time for you to have a smartphone.” That was very hard for her. It was like, “Dad, you make lots of money and every other kid in my school has it.” She got her first cell phone on her 16th birthday last year. So we held out, like we waited and I think it was hard. She was very upset at me at first. She didn’t understand. She’s like, I know you can afford this. This is stupid. Everyone else has one but we stuck to our guns.

I remember her saying, in ninth grade, she said, “At the school tables, every single kid is just head down facing the phone. No one’s talking to anybody and I’m so glad that you didn’t just buy me that smartphone for my birthday when I turned 12, like all my other friends were getting.” So sometimes you’re the bad guy when the kids are feeling spoiled or entitled and you’re just trying to establish these boundaries and principles but eventually I believe they’ll come around.
[JOE] Oh, so awesome. I can’t wait to read more of your book. Chad the last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world we’re listening right now, what would you want them to know?
[CHAD] I would say two things, number one, money can be stressful if you’re not prepared and you’re not intentional. So you look at your practice, you look at your family, money can be stressful if you don’t, if you’re not prepared, you don’t have a plan, you’re not intentional. But if you’re clear-minded about what you really want, you can make a huge impact on your practice, your family, the next generation. It doesn’t have to be a taboo topic. It can be a very comfortable and positive topic that you can build a legacy for not just in your practice, but also in your family.
[JOE] Such good advice. Chad, if people want to connect with you, if they want to read more about your work about this book, about other things you’re working on what’s the best place for them to connect with you and your work?
[CHAD] Two best places I’d say on LinkedIn. I’m very active daily there and then on
[JOE] Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast.
[CHAD] My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
[JOE] Well, go take some action on what you just learned today. We cover all things, private practice here, but also things that revolve around our lives that help us become better people, better parents. And just this idea of saying I want my kids to be smart, not spoiled, that resonates with me raising these two little girls. So take some action, go get the book, Smart, Not Spoiled. It’s the seven skills to master in childhood that your kids just have to master during that time. I can’t wait to start looking for what my spreadsheet of opportunity is going to be. That sounds like something from like a Lord of the Rings film, like the spreadsheet of opportunity.

So really excited to do that with my kids and to come up also just that idea of see a need, fill a need. I’m going to implement that. There’s so many things, you know, being a single dad, raising two girls that are just on my mental to-do list. I’ve been just putting it on a pad of paper, but I love the idea of having them initiate it and them actually say, “Hey dad, I see this, I want to do this, what do you think it would be worth for me to do that job or that chore?” That’s a big kind of life hack for me to implement. So I’m really excited about implementing that as well.

Well, it’s the end of the year. This is the last podcast of 2021. Today’s show is sponsored by Pillars of Practice. That is our free e-course. If you are just getting started in private practice, we have a track for you. If you already have a private practice and you want to grow it, expand it, we have an e-course for you as well, totally free over at We have these eight-minute expert videos where we’ve interviewed experts for eight minutes. I set a timer, we just tear through these expertise to get just down to it, like, what do we need to do in these specific areas? We have all of the downloads we’ve offered over the years in one spot. So we’ve got checklists, we’ve got things that will help you with social media, so many different things for you, totally for free over at

Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Having an amazing day. I’ll talk to you soon, or I’ll talk to you next year. Talk to you next year. I like it, better.

Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. We really like it. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.

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