Why You Need to be Patient with Your Marketing with John Bertino | MP 94

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On this marketing podcast, John Bertino talks about why you need to be patient with your marketing.

Which media strategy is better suited to your company? What are the pros and cons of paid and earned media? Why does being patient with your marketing earn people’s trust?

In this podcast episode, Sam Carvalho speaks with John Bertino about why you need to be patient with your marketing.

Podcast Sponsor: Brighter Vision

An image of Brighter Vision Web Solutions is featured as the sponsor on Faith in Practice Podcast, a therapist podcast. Brighter Vision builds all in one websites for therapists.

When you’re in private practice it can be tough to find the time to even review your marketing efforts, let alone to make improvements where needed.

By first understanding your practice and what makes it unique, Brighter Vision’s team of developers are then able to create you a beautiful website that will attract your ideal clients and get them to contact you. Better yet, they also provide unlimited tech support to make sure it’s always up-to-date, and professional search engine optimization to make sure you rank high in online searches – all at no additional cost.

But best of all, we’ve worked with them to create a special offer just for Marketing a Practice listeners. Get your first 3 months of website service completely FREE. To take advantage of this amazing deal, head to brightervision.com/joe. 

Meet John Bertino

An image of John Bertino is captured. He is the founder of The Agency Guide (TAG), a collective of seasoned marketing execs. He is featured on the Marketing a Practice podcast.

John Bertino is the founder of The Agency Guide (TAG), a collective of seasoned marketing execs determined to help your company source the best marketing team possible. As a University professor, SCORE business mentor, and experienced marketing consultant, John has helped brands of all sizes with SEO, content marketing, digital PR, and more.
You can learn more about how John and his team can help your brand hire the right marketing agency by visiting TheAgencyGuide.com.

Connect with John on Twitter and LinkedIn or email him at: john@theagencyguide.com

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In This Podcast

  • The keys to success between the best client-agency relationships
  • Boutique agency tips
  • The difference between paid and earned media
  • Why you should be patient with your marketing
  • John’s advice to private practitioners

The keys to success between the best client-agency relationships

1 – Look for the relevant experience, to begin with, because it shortens the learning curve and ultimately saves money and time.

2 – Understand who the “boss” is in the relationship. Who is going to be the alpha personality in the room? Is the client leading or is the agency leading?

It can be detrimental if [the client] is looking to hire an agency but they want to be the alpha leader. If I get that personality on the brand side, I’m looking to bring them teams that are more focused on execution … in other words, that agency is more equipped to take orders rather than to guide. (John Bertino)

3 – Be coachable. Nothing is going to sabotage a relationship faster than when there are too many cooks in the kitchen, so be willing to take advice.

Boutique agency tips

Most small businesses work with boutique agencies, and the way that you can check whether they will be a good fit for your practice’s needs is to ask them: what are the roots of your business?

If an agency started with design, then they may not be the best suited to help you elevate your search engine optimization.

If an agency started with digital, then they may not be the best suited to revamp and redesign your practice.

The difference between paid and earned media

So much of an initial marketing strategy and roadmap to what is going to work for your small business comes back to foundational and basic principles about paid, earned, and owned media. (John Bertino)

All marketing can be boiled down into three areas:

  • Paid: you are paying for visibility, (billboards, paid ads)
  • Earned: you have earned the visibility
  • Owned: you own a media asset that engineers the visibility

You need to get your media in front of people and drive traffic towards them, and you can do this through both paid and earned media channels:

Paid media:

  • Pros: controlled, measurable, guaranteed, easy to test, relatively inexpensive
  • Cons: you are just an advertiser, you do not accumulate trust, “rented” visibility

Earned media:

  • Pros: word of mouth builds trust, uniqueness, and a permanent result
  • Cons: uncontrolled, not guaranteed, difficult to measure, takes longer, expensive

When you take the time to understand each of these media types, the structure of your business, and the goals you have for your practice, you can figure out which approach is best for you and the company.

Why you should be patient with your marketing

It’s less about, “this is good, this is bad” or, “this is first, this is second” … as much as it is about expectations. So much of it is about expectations. (John Bertino)

You do not earn trust immediately because it takes time.

At the end of the day, you need to be clear on when to use which tool out of the branding-and-media toolbox to get the results you want.

John’s advice to private practitioners

Be patient with your marketing, and think about paid, earned, and owned media but that there is no “silver bullet”. Each approach has pros and cons, and a blended mix that is suited to your practice is the best strategy to take going forward.

Useful links mentioned in this episode:

Check out these additional resources:

Meet Sam Carvalho

A photo of Samantha Carvalho is captured. She is the Chief Marketing Officer and Designer at Practice of the Practice. She is the host of the Marketing A Practice Podcast and helps therapists successfully market and brand their private practices.Sam Carvalho is a graphic designer living in Cape Town, South Africa, with over five years of experience in both design and marketing, with a special interest and experience in the start-up environment.

She has been working with Practice of the Practice since 2016 and has helped over 70 therapist entrepreneurs take their practices to the next level by enhancing their visual branding. She loves working with a variety of clients on design-intensive tasks and is always up for a challenge!

Follow Sam on Instagram to see some of her work. To work with Sam, head on over to www.practiceofthepractice.com/branding.

Thanks For Listening!

Feel free to leave a comment below or share this podcast on social media by clicking on one of the social media links below! Alternatively, leave a review on iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

[SAM CARVALHO] Welcome to the Marketing a Practice podcast with me, Sam Carvalho where you’ll discover everything you need to know about marketing and branding your business. To find out more about how I can help you brand new business visit www.practiceofthepractice.com/branding. If you’d like to see some examples of my design work, be sure to follow me on Instagram at Samantha Carvalho Design. John Bertino is the founder of The Agency Guide, known as TAG, a collective of seasonal marketing execs, determined to help your company source the best marketing team possible. As a university professor, SCORE business mentor and experienced marketing consultant, John has helped brands of all sizes with SEO, content marketing, digital PR, and more. Hi John, thanks so much for joining us today. [JOHN BERTINO] My pleasure. Delighted to be here, Sam. [SAM] So I always ask this with every guest, can you tell us a bit about your story and how you got to where you are now? [JOHN] Yes, sure thing. As I reflect back on my journey to ultimately launching TAG, now eight years young, I actually think there’s quite a few key lessons from my journey that I are really pertinent and relevant to other entrepreneurs and marketers. So I graduated with a degree in marketing, first and foremost from Rutgers University. My first job was in the music business of all places. At the time I was a musician, passionate about getting my myself signed and so I tried to do that from within and actually started out at EMI, one of the largest record distribution companies of the world. I was fortunate to get in there and started out, I guess my first real exposure with what’s relevant to what I do today is actually helping some major bands at the time market themselves on MySpace, which I guess dates myself a little bit. [SAM] I remember MySpace as well, so you’re not alone. [JOHN] Oh, you’re dating yourself too now. But it’s true, even at that early stage in my career, I was trying to figure out how to leverage social media to market things. That was brand new at the time. I think the first real pertinent lesson comes in where I realized that the music industry, ultimately wasn’t for me, I’ll spare your listeners, the story there and then found myself somehow in the safety supply industry, which definitely wasn’t the right long term place for me and found myself at like an intersection in my career, trying to figure out what the heck to do with myself and where to take my natural talents, which everybody should be finding a way to try to capitalize on. At the time SEO, search engine optimization was just coming onto the scene as a pertinent, viable, relevant marketing channel. Have you ever seen the movie with Mark Wahlberg, Invincible? It’s a great movie. Your listeners to check it out. It’s about the Philadelphia Eagles, shout out to my hometown of Philadelphia, by the way and how in real life, they actually had an open tryout for anyone that wanted to, that thought that they were capable of playing football, could come try out for the Philadelphia Eagles. This one guy, I forget his name at the moment, shame on me actually tried out at. He had just had an everyday job, like a construction worker or something, and ended up becoming a Philadelphia Eagle. So there was actually an agency at the time that had a similar philosophy. They were like, look, if you think you can sell and you like marketing and you like SEO come try out and become a member of our team. This is where the story really gets relevant, is I did it, I tried out, I won, I got on and all of a sudden I had a career in marketing. But the agency I came to find was not very good. They were fantastic at sales, but they really didn’t know what they were doing from a marketing perspective. But the way I was able to even figure that out was I studied my butt off. I got really serious about the subject matter, the nuances of SEO and before you knew it, and I mean like two, three months, I was like the smartest guy on the team. I was able to discern all of the flaws and gaps in their story and things that they were telling people that were wrong and I was like three months into this. So I would say the relevant takeaway to others, like looking at a career change, or just trying to break into marketing is that you should, you’ve got to be passionate about learning. I mean, it’s such an obvious point, but the key to moving up in life in your career, professionally, whatever it is to try to acquire a real passion for learning. So without taking up too much of the episode I think the other part of my story that has some real key lessons is from there. I went on to a more legitimate marketing agency. But this agency, this next one was very, very focused on sales still. So both of these agencies, first two were really focused on sales, and not nearly enough, again, on best marketing practices, caring about clients, listening to brands and their true needs and caring about their success. This is where I started to develop a personal taste for what I wanted for myself, for my career, how I wanted to conduct myself, which ultimately led me to the exact opposite type of marketing agency, which was one that was super small, super boutique and checked all those boxes. They really cared about people, they really cared about best practices, they were students of the game, they were super niche. This obviously was a much better approach to running an agency but not great for being a W2 salaried employee who made a living off of sales, because we were constantly turning stuff away, which was great for the agency and definitely agency best practices, but not great again for a salesperson in that position, which ultimately led me to saying, coming to a few conclusions that brought me to where I am today; which is one, if instead of representing one agency, I could represent several and align different brands in their specific needs with different agencies. I could be much more successful. The agencies I represent could be more successful and the brands, most of all could better route themselves to the right agencies. It also made me realize that for the agencies themselves there’s a lot to be said about carving out your niche, being clear on who you are and where you really thrive and turning away things that are irrelevant and if an agency does that, they can have great success. So some collection of this journey and path ultimately led me to launch my current company, The Agency Guide where we’re matchmaking brands with businesses based on their specific needs. [SAM] Oka, amazing. It’s such an incredible story. I think it’s amazing how you came full circle. You studied marketing and then went and tried out a bunch of other stuff and came back to marketing and then really delved into it., And I really like what you said about being passionate about learning, I think specifically within marketing, because digital marketing specifically is a forever changing element. So I think if you’re going to be in marketing, you have no choice, but to continue learning to stay ahead of the game, [JOHN] Great point. I mean, you have a choice and a lot of people choose to get lazy and not keep up, but you won’t last long or your agency will start to fall apart or so on and so forth. So yes, I agree. It’s absolutely key. [SAM] So yes, I think that’s great that you saw that gap in the market. I mean, I’m sure naturally your company’s been a success because I can just imagine that that’s definitely a requirement. I think like you said, the marketing agencies are the best kind, but when you’re working for one, it’s not always ideal. So I think it’s great that you — [JOHN] It’s true. [SAM] Yes, that you moved out of that. So obviously through this journey, you mentioned, you learned a lot, and one of the things you highlighted was the flaws that you picked up in current marketing agencies specifically with regards to the engagement model. So can you touch on that a bit? [JOHN] Yes, sure. So there’s different ways to skin a cat. I hate that expression, but I’ll use it anyway, which means there’s not like one-size-fits-all blueprint for what can make your agency successful or for what makes a good agency. But since we’re mostly speaking to small practices here, small businesses, and therefore looking at the types of agencies that are the best fit for them, I often find that more niche, more narrow, more specific agencies often make the best partners. Now, again, there’s caveats to this. I’ll give you some of them. But from the agency’s perspective, you really should try to find your ownable space, which is a popular term in the branding world: Be clear on who you are, what market you service best. That’ll help give you a unique differentiation and value proposition that really helps you cut through the noise (there certainly is a lot of noise in the agency space) and will allow you ultimately to provide better business for your clients. And as I already mentioned, help you stand out during the sales process and win more business. From the small businesses perspective, I mean, there’s a number of things that tend to make for the best client agency relationships, like keys to success. Perhaps I should run through a few of those. [SAM] That would be great. [JOHN] To start, as I mentioned, you’re looking for that relevant experience to begin with. Now it’s not always critical that the agency has relevant experience, but more often than not, that’s going to shorten their learning curve and that learning curve often has a real monetary value to it. It’s hours in the day, hours of the agency exhausts to learn, to understand, to try different things and that has a very real cost associated with it. So by starting out, looking for someone with relevant experience, obviously that that can be beneficial. Another thing that I think is really key for that successful client agency relationship is understanding who’s the boss, who’s the leader? Look we’re agency match makers. That’s what we do. We help brands find and source the best agencies and when I’m trying to find what’s going to be key in making this relationship with success is really understanding who’s going to be the alpha personality in the room? So marketing is one of these things where a lot of, almost any business owner has learned a thing or two and has aspired to learn a thing or two. And that can be great for helping that business owner keep up and tag along and knowing when they’re not getting ripped off or taking advantage of, but it can also be detrimental if they are looking to hire an agency, but they want to be the alpha leader. So if I get that personality on the brand side, I’m often looking to bring them teams that are more focused on execution and less focused on trying to be the leader. In other words, that agency’s more equipped to take orders than to give them or guide. Conversely, if the brand is like, we don’t know what we’re doing, or we just simply do not want to be in charge of this, then I look for the agency that’s best positioned to lead. That’s certainly one key factor I like to highlight. And with that, regardless of the personality of the brand and the individuals involved, I always recommend that that brand be willing to be, that the individuals that handle marketing for that brand opened themselves up to being coachable. Because again, nothing’s going to sabotage a relationship faster than when there’s too many cooks in the kitchen, and if you’re hiring a team for their expertise, then you need to be willing to take that advice. That could be tough, especially for business owners who often have a leading alpha personality to be willing to step aside and let the experts do their thing. I could give you other tips if you’d like, or perhaps we could segue to other questions. [SAM] No, so I think those are two incredible points, and I think it just highlights again, the amazing service that you’re providing, because exactly, like you said, now, both of those points, without TAG involved would lead to so much wasted money and time with, either you working with an agency that you then over time realize is not a good match for you. You’ve already spent money, then you need to spend time finding another agency. So I think it’s some really good tips and it also just highlights the amazing service that your company provides. [JOHN] Well, thanks, I appreciate that. I’ll tell you what, I’ll throw in one more as a bonus. Look for a team that’s honest about who they are and what they’re good at. Similar to the first point about being more niche. In general, full service, I think is a bit of a red flag and a dirty word. There are some teams that can pull it off, but usually for an agency to really truly be full service, they have to be quite large. They have to staff a lot of personnel with a lot of expertise that do things really well, and that require a mix of strategists plus people that actually execute so on and so forth. So unless it’s a big team, it’s really hard to be truly first full-service. The only alternative is to outsource or have a bunch of contracted solutions that that agency uses to actually be full service even though that agency’s a small team, they have a bunch of contracted solutions around them. That can work but note that there’s often going to be some bloat in the price tag because they’re using third party outsourced teams. And it can be hard when they don’t control those teams that are not employees to make that whole ecosystem work. So the net is, back to the buyer, when you hear full service it’s not necessarily a dirty word, but it is a red flag and you really got to drill down and understand, well, how exactly are you facilitating that? I always recommend that brands really press an agency that’s claiming to be full-service or omnichannel on, okay, well then how did you start? Because that will tell you a lot about their true core competency, their background, and where they come from as marketers and experts. For example, if an agency started, if their agency roots are in branding and creative, they’re oftentimes not the best types of teams to hire for digital marketing, like digital ads, SEO, influencer marketing, things like that. I mean, there’s definitely exceptions to this, but if that’s their backbone they’re probably not your analytics first team. The inverse is true too. If the agency, again, we’re talking boutique agencies, small businesses, typically hiring boutique agencies, if the agency’s roots are in digital, then they’re probably not the right team to be flushing out your brand and on and on. [BRIGHTER VISION] When you’re in private practice, it can be tough to find the time to even review your marketing efforts, let alone to make improvements where needed. Whether you are a seasoned clinician with an existing website in need of a refresh or a new therapist, building a website for the first time, Brighter Vision is the perfect solution. By first understanding your practice and what makes it unique, Brighter Vision’s team of developers are then able to create you a beautiful website that will attract your ideal clients and get them to contact you. Better yet, they also provide unlimited tech support to make sure it’s always up to date and professional search engine optimization to make sure you rank high in online searches all at no additional cost. But best of all, we’ve worked with them to create special offer just for the Marketing a Practice listeners. Get your first three months of website service, completely free. To take advantage of this amazing deal, head to brightervision.com/joe. Again, that’s brightervision.com/joe. [SAM CARVALHO] Amazing. Some really great tips there. Can you speak a bit into prioritizing marketing spending for a small to medium business and understanding the pros and cons of paid and earned media? [JOHN] Yes, absolutely. This is one of my favorite things to talk about because I find that so much of an initial marketing strategy and roadmap to what’s going to work for your small business comes back to very foundational and basic principles about paid, earned and owned media. I’ll elaborate: this concept of paid earned and owned media is so textbook. It’s so foundational. It’s not a new school. In fact, it’s the opposite of news school. This is what they’ve been teaching in universities for years, and yet it still holds all the same amount of importance today. It’ll never change because it’s foundational to marketing. Essentially all marketing can be boiled down into three areas. You’re either paying for the visibility, you’re earning the visibility, or it’s an owned media asset, which means you control it and you are the one engineering what happens on that channel. There are hybrids such as influencer marketing, which is an interesting hybrid of paid and earned where you’re paying for it, but it looks earned. And they call that converged. But putting that aside and these hybrids, just understanding paid, earned, and owned media’s case, so your owned media, which again, assets you own, your website, your social channels, theoretically, your blog, the content you create is only as good as your ability to drive traffic to it, right, Sam? Like I always say, what good is a billboard on the moon? If you can’t get eyeballs on that piece of marketing, your owned media or your owned asset, then it’s not doing you any good from a more marketing perspective. Okay, that’s understood. That’s obvious. Which means you have two basic ways to drive traffic to those owned assets. So let’s just say, it’s your website. You’ve got paid channels and you’ve got earned channels. Here’s where it starts to get really interesting. When you look at paid and earned media, the pros and cons of each are in direct juxtaposition to one another. So for example, paid media is any marketing, I’ll say vehicle by which you simply pay money and you get visibility, whether it’s a billboard, it’s a social media ad, it’s a Google ad, you’re paying money, you’re getting visibility. The beautiful thing about this is it’s highly measurable because you can control so many aspects of it. It’s guaranteed visibility. It’s easy to run lots of tests and compare different headlines against different ad creative and on balance, especially compared to things like in the earned media side of the equation, it’s relatively inexpensive. It only costs, it barely costs anything to get up a Facebook ad and voila, you got lots of eyeballs. So you might say, well, look, if it’s highly quantifiable and measurable and guaranteed visibility, and it’s inexpensive to start, what’s the downside, what’s the setback? Well, the downside is you’re just an advertiser and you really accumulate zero trust. You don’t build any moat. You don’t build any difficult to, it’s not hard for anyone else with the same budget to do exactly what you’re doing. Also you’re just renting the visibility. You own nothing. Your visibility is only because you’re paying someone else for it. So again, earned media is almost the exact inverse of this. Earned media, this is, think PR, the two best examples of true pure earned media are PR if it’s not paid for, if it’s truly earned and word of mouth, is the ultimate earned media. What do these two vehicles accomplish for you? The exact same things that paid media cannot. They build trust, they build a motive that not anyone can just copy, and theoretically, it’s a permanent result. Once you get featured on The Today Show, no one can ever take that away from you. Once someone endorses you, especially a high profile individual, no one can ever take that away for you, except I suppose the individual themselves. But putting them aside, when Oprah Winfrey endorses you that’s there forever. But the flip side of earned media is all the things that are great about paid media. It’s hard to measure, it’s much less guaranteed, it takes much more time to accumulate and on balance it can be really expensive and time consuming to earn that level of trust where you’re getting that endorsement. So to pull it all together, when you start to understand and think through the pros and cons of each section, how different marketing channels produce or do not produce these positives or negative aspects and how that all relates to driving traffic to your website, you can really start to figure out what appropriate strategy looks like. I’ll give you an example, take your local therapist or therapists office. You can quickly and easily take out some ads and drive some traffic, but because this idea of offering such a personalized service that requires some trust, you’re typically just going to be seen as an advertiser. So yes, it’s okay to test some of these channels, but you shouldn’t expect a high degree of result or output because so much about what you’re doing, the service you’re offering requires there to be trust. That obviously points starts to point the needle towards earned media, being a better, well, a very viable and important marketing channel for you because trust is so important. Think about how this compares to a simple e-Commerce business selling, I don’t know, all natural soap. Yes, trust is always a key and important variable, but you’re more likely to wait that marketing expend on the paid media side of the spectrum, because it’s a bit more of a numbers game. It’s about expanding the net. It’s about running controlled tests and seeing how much we can get more eyeballs to our products so that they’re aware of it whereas that’s not really the key for again, like a therapist. I could talk about this for hours, but that’s essentially the nuts and bolts of it. [SAM] Just a question on that, so if you had somebody who was setting up their own product practice at the beginning stages of marketing themselves, is it not, I mean, you said obviously one of the cons of the earned media is that it takes time to accumulate, especially something like a press release that just popped up with somebody that’s endorsed you. So is it not that it’s always going to start out with the paid side of things and over time, the earned media will develop by itself? I’m interested to hear, how would you start out with an earned media strategy from the very beginning? [JOHN] Sure. So it’s less about, this is good, this is bad, this is first, this is second, although you do need to prioritize the actual spend, let’s be clear. As much as it’s about expectations, so much of it is about expectations. Oftentimes brands are like, boy, I hired a PR agency, it didn’t work. But they only gave it a month or two and they’re not clear on the fact that it’s hard to measure earned media. It’s difficult. You don’t earn trust immediately. These things take time. So at the end of the day, it’s often about an accumulation and mix of both, but being clear on when to use which tool out of the toolbox and where one tool is going to be weak and another tool is going to be strong. You mentioned press release. I think it’s important to note that a press release in a lot of ways is almost more, it’s really actually paid media. It’s earned media into disguise because anybody can do it. You simply pay a fee, you go to PR news wire, you disseminate a release, and most people are keen to the idea that, well, that wasn’t really earned. It was just a release. Not everybody’s clear on that, but you’re, you could argue that it’s almost trying to trick people in a sense, because it might show up on a big site and look nice, but most people know that that wasn’t really earned. [SAM] Yes. Awesome. Well, I think you’ve given a lot of valuable insights here and thanks so much for that. So John, if people wanted to get in touch with you, what is the best way for them to do that? [JOHN] Yes, sure. We encourage anyone that’s interested in learning more about our agency matching services to go to our site or social media and give us a shout. The website is theagencyguide.com. We used to be agency guide for seven years, but rebranded to guide. Then you can find us on social at Agency Guide HQ on most channels, Facebook, Instagram, I think LinkedIn, but we’re really just a search away, The Agency Guide out of Philadelphia. [SAM] Great. We’ll have all of that linked in the show notes. I believe you have a giveaway for the audience as well. Can you speak of it into that? [JOHN] We do. I was struggling to remember the URL. We’ll put it in the show notes. We have an SEO eBook that I think would be of great value to any local practitioner or therapist’s office or doctor’s office that might be listening. If you go to our blog, usually any post about SEO or search it’ll pop up. Like I said, we’ll put the link in the show notes. It’s a long eBook. I think it’s like, I think it’s like almost a hundred pages long on local SEO. So it’s really good stuff. [SAM] Amazing. We’ll definitely get the link to that in the show notes. Then the question I end off every episode with is if every private practice owner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? [JOHN] As it relates to marketing, I’d want them to know to A, be patient, B, as we just discussed, start to think through this idea of paid, earned and owned media and realize that there is no silver bullet. If there were a silver bullet, everybody would be doing it and every practice would be blowing up and getting rich quick off their digital marketing. There are flaws and setbacks to every marketing tactic and channel, and it takes a blended mix. Last but not least C, I would say to them that appearance matters. In this case, I’m talking about their website, the appearance of their own media, their social channels. People judge appearance to a fault or arguably to a fault when it comes to selecting a provider for just about everything . So no matter how good you are at driving that traffic through paid and earned, you ultimately send them to what? Your owned media. So if you want to increase that conversion rate, increase the amount of sales, increase the amount of revenue, make sure you’re paying significant amount of attention to your appearance: that is your website and how you’re representing yourself. [SAM] So true. John, thank you so much for all the insight that you’ve provided today and thanks for being on the Marketing a Practice podcast. [JOHN] I was thrilled to be here. Thanks so much for having me, Sam. [SAM] Thanks again to Brighter Vision for sponsoring this episode. To get your first three months of website service completely free head on over to brightervision.com/joe. [SAM] Thanks for listening to the Marketing a Practice podcast. If you need help with branding your business, whether it be a new logo, rebrand, or you simply want some print flyer designed head on over to www.practiceofthepractice.com/branding. If you’d like to see some examples of my design work, be sure to follow me on Instagram at Samantha Carvalho Design. Finally, please subscribe, rate, and review this podcast on iTunes if you like what you’ve heard. Talk to you soon. Marketing a Practice podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice podcast network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Beta Male Revolution, Empowered and Unapologetic, Imperfect Thriving, or Faith in Practice, go to practiceofthepractice.com/network. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.